<html><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Ken,<div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div>Sounds like it might be worth measuring the placements, heights, etc. of grab bars and toilet paper holders in both bathrooms, and adjusting in either bathroom if necessary to meet the ADA guidelines.</div><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div>David </div><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div><br><div><div>On Dec 10, 2007, at 2:51 PM, Lucinda Pitcairn wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0; "><div bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">Ken,<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br><br>I just now got to my e-mail so I'm late in joining this discussion. However, I have noticed since you put the new toilet in upstairs, the grab rails in that bathroom are now too low and the TP holder is in an awkward position. Are you sure this is not the bathroom Dirk was talking about? The fact that he says "above the higher grab bar also would suggest it is that bathroom he means--I believe the other bathroom has only one grab bar? In any case, I'm forwarding the ADA guidelines via another e-mail.<br><br>Cindy<br><br><br><br>Ken Ross wrote:<blockquote cite="mid:p06240801c38231cc3066@%5B10.0.1.2%5D" type="cite" style="padding-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; "><div>Accessibility and Facilities Friends,</div><div><br></div><div>I received the following request:</div><div><br></div><div><font face="Times New Roman"><i><b>5 December 2007 </b></i></font></div><div><font face="Times New Roman"><i><b> Re: Bathroom, west, main floor</b></i></font></div><div><font face="Times New Roman"><i><b> I bought and gave to the church 2 "grab bars for the west bathroom. The "grab bars" are installed. I am a user. With a request. The Newsletter indicates that changes have been made, and are being made, to the bathrooms, so I make this request: place the toilet paper holder so that the paper holder does not restrict the use of the grab bars. In the present position, the toilet paper holder blocks certain positions of the arm, in the use of the grab bars. The placement of the paper holder in its present position can block the arm and defeat the purpose of the grab bars.</b></i></font></div><div><font face="Times New Roman"><i><b> Dirk P. Ten Brinke</b></i></font></div><div><br></div><div>The restroom in question is not the one with the new ADA-compliant toilet. In case you don't know, Dirk is an elderly long-time member of the church, sings in the choir, and uses a cane/walking stick. I saw no good solution, but I figured the only possible solution was to move the "toilet paper holder" (TP holder) about six inches to the left of its present location. In further communication with Dirk, he objected because</div><div><br></div><div><i><b> the holder should be well forward of the shoulder; </b></i></div><div><i><b>(I don't know anyone with hands coming out of the shoulder, as the position of many holders seems to suggest. Lots of toilet paper holders are in a dumb positions in terms of function.)</b></i></div><div><br></div><div>Then he gave me his proposal: move the "toilet paper holder" to the right beyond the higher grab bar. I checked this idea out this morning. I would be able to reach it that far forward, but it would be a stretch. Would some of you be able to check whether that change would make things worse for other users?</div><div><br></div><div>Ken</div><div><br></div><div>PS: I don't think this is an urgent item. Dirk indicated that he had donated the grab bars. When I asked him who installed them, he responded that he didn't remember but that it "might have been before your time." Ruth and I started coming in 1987 and joined in 1989. Nevertheless, I want to give Dirk's request a fair hearing.</div></blockquote></div></span></blockquote></div></div></body></html>