From algaelady at gmail.com Tue Mar 4 16:54:47 2008 From: algaelady at gmail.com (jeannemarie moore) Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 14:54:47 -0800 Subject: [Access] FW: May 2nd conference... Message-ID: <001901c87e4a$bf831e20$6401a8c0@TheMachine> I vote for the day before... anyone up for going with me? _____ From: Interfaith Disabilities Network of Oregon IDNO [mailto:idno at msn.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 2:42 PM To: algaelady at gmail.com Subject: Re: May 2nd conference... Dear Jeanne-Marie, Our brochures may be ready by early next week; I can email a copy and send some as soon as they are available. We have not set up a website (would that we could, but we're so busy!) One question I do have: we're working on getting a reduced rate at a Shilo Inn. They're interested in supporting our program, but their hotels are either located near the airport or near Lloyd Center. Would you have a preference? And were you thinking of spending the night before or after the conference? I think we can get 50% off the night before, so let me know which you might prefer. How many guests would need a hotel? Would any be sharing a room? Early bird registration is until April 15, cost is $25. After that date, the cost is $35. Both rates include lunch. Also, social workers may receive CEU's for an additional cost. Hope this email answers more of your questions. Kind regards, Corinne ----- Original Message ----- From: jeannemarie moore To: idno at msn.com Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2008 7:03 PM Subject: May 2nd conference... Hello and good day, Some of us from Eugene are interested in learning more about this conference... it's a drive for us but we're wondering: will there be materials in Braille, when is the registration deadline, and is there a web site for learning the topics to be discussed? What lodging places are near this conference location? Thanks so much. Blessings, Jeanne-Marie -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.uueugene.org/pipermail/access/attachments/20080304/2485e0e3/attachment.html From maryotten at earthlink.net Wed Mar 5 00:50:07 2008 From: maryotten at earthlink.net (Mary Otten) Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2008 22:50:07 -0800 Subject: [Access] co-ordinating council Message-ID: Hi folks, I'm sorry about missing the meeting tonight. My schedule should be back to normal for the next one. On the CC agenda for this next meeting is the matter of clusters, which I know we havve discussed in the past. It was my recollection that we were not entirely thrilled with the idea of accessibility being put in the outreach cluster. Maybe that's partly because I at least am not sure what outreach means. It sounds like its community focused rather than church focused.. and I frankly think we've got enough to do within our church community that is of significant priority that I sure don't want to be put into a cluster whose primary focus is on issues outside of home, so to speak. I think some of these proposed clusters make sense and others are force fits. Is anybody planning to attend the CC on Saturday? I may be able to do so, unless you guys have already tasked somebody with representing us. mary From mariah at efn.org Wed Mar 5 02:18:48 2008 From: mariah at efn.org (d. maria) Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2008 00:18:48 -0800 Subject: [Access] co-ordinating council In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <10301d6b9c614228deee80deaad6f326@efn.org> Cindy and I are going and Access is on the agenda. Cindy has a spot to discuss the accessibility check-list she's been working on... to let them in on the process. I agree with you about the clusters. There was some discussion already about our placement and that can be changed. I think the idea of clusters will be moving more slowly. It is clear there is a Sunday morning service committee that has a good reason to meet, and that will probably move forward, however, many are feeling more cautious about moving too quickly on others. I think it would be wonderful for you to come to the meeting this Saturday... for support around the cluster issues and the check-list. I hope you will. dm On Mar 4, 2008, at 10:50 PM, Mary Otten wrote: > Hi folks, > > I'm sorry about missing the meeting tonight. My schedule should be back > to normal for the next one. On the CC agenda for this next meeting is > the matter of clusters, which I know we havve discussed in the past. It > was my recollection that we were not entirely thrilled with the idea of > accessibility being put in the outreach cluster. Maybe that's partly > because I at least am not sure what outreach means. It sounds like its > community focused rather than church focused.. and I frankly think > we've got enough to do within our church community that is of > significant priority that I sure don't want to be put into a cluster > whose primary focus is on issues outside of home, so to speak. I think > some of these proposed clusters make sense and others are force fits. > Is anybody planning to attend the CC on Saturday? I may be able to do > so, unless you guys have already tasked somebody with representing us. > > mary > > _______________________________________________ > Access mailing list > Access at uueugene.org > http://www.uueugene.org > http://www.uueugene.org/mailman/listinfo/access > From algaelady at gmail.com Wed Mar 5 09:25:36 2008 From: algaelady at gmail.com (jeannemarie moore) Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2008 07:25:36 -0800 Subject: [Access] co-ordinating council In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <001301c87ed5$2b331140$6401a8c0@TheMachine> I'll go... what do you want me to do? j-m. -----Original Message----- From: access-bounces at uueugene.org [mailto:access-bounces at uueugene.org] On Behalf Of Mary Otten Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 10:50 PM To: Access Issues and Discussion Subject: [Access] co-ordinating council Hi folks, I'm sorry about missing the meeting tonight. My schedule should be back to normal for the next one. On the CC agenda for this next meeting is the matter of clusters, which I know we havve discussed in the past. It was my recollection that we were not entirely thrilled with the idea of accessibility being put in the outreach cluster. Maybe that's partly because I at least am not sure what outreach means. It sounds like its community focused rather than church focused.. and I frankly think we've got enough to do within our church community that is of significant priority that I sure don't want to be put into a cluster whose primary focus is on issues outside of home, so to speak. I think some of these proposed clusters make sense and others are force fits. Is anybody planning to attend the CC on Saturday? I may be able to do so, unless you guys have already tasked somebody with representing us. mary _______________________________________________ Access mailing list Access at uueugene.org http://www.uueugene.org http://www.uueugene.org/mailman/listinfo/access From mariah at efn.org Wed Mar 5 10:37:19 2008 From: mariah at efn.org (d. maria) Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2008 08:37:19 -0800 Subject: [Access] co-ordinating council In-Reply-To: <001301c87ed5$2b331140$6401a8c0@TheMachine> References: <001301c87ed5$2b331140$6401a8c0@TheMachine> Message-ID: <896a73bd6d7d6e770cf16e3375e45df4@efn.org> You are welcome to come... I think Cindy will be representing Accessibility, and Mary & I will be there also. One does not have to be officially representing anyone to attend. And often there is more than one person representing a particular committee or group. We will be a formidable force for good. dm On Mar 5, 2008, at 7:25 AM, jeannemarie moore wrote: > I'll go... what do you want me to do? > j-m. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: access-bounces at uueugene.org [mailto:access-bounces at uueugene.org] > On > Behalf Of Mary Otten > Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 10:50 PM > To: Access Issues and Discussion > Subject: [Access] co-ordinating council > > Hi folks, > > I'm sorry about missing the meeting tonight. My schedule should be > back to > normal for the next one. On the CC agenda for this next meeting is the > matter of clusters, which I know we havve discussed in the past. It > was my > recollection that we were not entirely thrilled with the idea of > accessibility being put in the outreach cluster. Maybe that's partly > because > I at least am not sure what outreach means. It sounds like its > community > focused rather than church focused.. and I frankly think we've got > enough to > do within our church community that is of significant priority that I > sure > don't want to be put into a cluster whose primary focus is on issues > outside > of home, so to speak. I think some of these proposed clusters make > sense > and others are force fits. > Is anybody planning to attend the CC on Saturday? I may be able to do > so, > unless you guys have already tasked somebody with representing us. > > mary > > _______________________________________________ > Access mailing list > Access at uueugene.org > http://www.uueugene.org > http://www.uueugene.org/mailman/listinfo/access > > _______________________________________________ > Access mailing list > Access at uueugene.org > http://www.uueugene.org > http://www.uueugene.org/mailman/listinfo/access > From crittervilla at yahoo.com Wed Mar 5 11:08:11 2008 From: crittervilla at yahoo.com (Katherine) Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2008 09:08:11 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Access] Hearing aids and the service Message-ID: <582424.63010.qm@web53906.mail.re2.yahoo.com> On Sunday, there was an announcement at church for anyone wearing hearing aids to not have them all the way turned up as they would interfere with the sound system and cause feedback. I am an Audiologist and I feel concerned about this request, as I don't believe hearing aids have anything to do with the sound system feeding back. I have never heard of this before. I would like to make a suggestion to assist people in learning to use their hearing aids with our sound system. I would like to offer to set-up a table during coffee time after the services on some Sunday and offer to look at people's hearing aids, assist them in discovering if they have compatible technology with our sound system, and demonstrate our assistive devices to them. I can also assess the status of their hearing aids' condition as a plus. I am interested in the sound system on several levels. I believe I may be able to help in reducing the feedback that happens in the system without having to lose so much gain (volume). I have a theory that I'd like to experiment with a bit, if we can work with Ruth from sound. Any input on this? Thanks, Katherine Swem ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.uueugene.org/pipermail/access/attachments/20080305/46dd6c72/attachment-0001.html From mariah at efn.org Wed Mar 5 13:06:43 2008 From: mariah at efn.org (d. maria) Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2008 11:06:43 -0800 Subject: [Access] Hearing aids and the service In-Reply-To: <582424.63010.qm@web53906.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <582424.63010.qm@web53906.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8c5c090dccf3c8daf975ba1f42a293b4@efn.org> I have been a sound tech here for about 5 or 6 years and I can tell you that sometimes hearing aides have caused feed-back to our system. We thought we had it licked, but a few weeks ago I just had one mic on at minimum volume and it happened again. It might have been another kind of electronic devise, but it also might have been a hearing aide. We would be delighted it you would set up a table and offer increased information to those with hearing aids and for those of us doing sound. Also, I realize that announcement was not well worded. I could use some advise about how to best word it for the future in the order of service. I have cc'd Ruth to this end. THANK YOU!!! dm On Mar 5, 2008, at 9:08 AM, Katherine wrote: > On Sunday, there was an announcement at church for anyone wearing > hearing aids to not have them all the way turned up as they would > interfere with the sound system and cause feedback. > ? > I am an Audiologist and I feel concerned about this request, as I > don't believe hearing aids have anything to do with the sound system > feeding back.? I have never heard of this before. > ? > I would like to make a suggestion to assist people in learning to use > their hearing aids with our sound system.? I would like to offer to > set-up a table during coffee time after the services on some Sunday > and offer to look at people's hearing aids, assist them in discovering > if they have compatible technology with our sound system, and > demonstrate our assistive devices to them.? I can also assess the > status of their hearing aids' condition as a plus.? > ? > I am interested in the sound system on several levels.? I believe I > may be able to help in reducing the feedback that happens in the > system without having to lose so much gain (volume).? I have a theory > that I'd like to experiment with a bit, if we can work with Ruth from > sound.? > ? > Any input on this? > ? > Thanks, > > Katherine Swem > > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. > Try it now._______________________________________________ > Access mailing list > Access at uueugene.org > http://www.uueugene.org > http://www.uueugene.org/mailman/listinfo/access -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 3286 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.uueugene.org/pipermail/access/attachments/20080305/3f84dd32/attachment.bin From crittervilla at yahoo.com Wed Mar 5 13:57:56 2008 From: crittervilla at yahoo.com (Katherine) Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2008 11:57:56 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Access] Hearing aids and the service Message-ID: <878298.53233.qm@web53903.mail.re2.yahoo.com> I would love to plan a meeting with a sound expert and do an experiment. Are you game, Mariah? I can bring a powerful hearing aid with a volume control and we can test this out. Let's make a plan. Probably a Saturday morning would work best for me. ----- Original Message ---- From: d. maria To: Access Issues and Discussion Sent: Wednesday, March 5, 2008 11:06:43 AM Subject: Re: [Access] Hearing aids and the service I have been a sound tech here for about 5 or 6 years and I can tell you that sometimes hearing aides have caused feed-back to our system. We thought we had it licked, but a few weeks ago I just had one mic on at minimum volume and it happened again. It might have been another kind of electronic devise, but it also might have been a hearing aide. We would be delighted it you would set up a table and offer increased information to those with hearing aids and for those of us doing sound. Also, I realize that announcement was not well worded. I could use some advise about how to best word it for the future in the order of service. I have cc'd Ruth to this end. THANK YOU!!! dm On Mar 5, 2008, at 9:08 AM, Katherine wrote: > On Sunday, there was an announcement at church for anyone wearing > hearing aids to not have them all the way turned up as they would > interfere with the sound system and cause feedback. > > I am an Audiologist and I feel concerned about this request, as I > don't believe hearing aids have anything to do with the sound system > feeding back. I have never heard of this before. > > I would like to make a suggestion to assist people in learning to use > their hearing aids with our sound system. I would like to offer to > set-up a table during coffee time after the services on some Sunday > and offer to look at people's hearing aids, assist them in discovering > if they have compatible technology with our sound system, and > demonstrate our assistive devices to them. I can also assess the > status of their hearing aids' condition as a plus. > > I am interested in the sound system on several levels. I believe I > may be able to help in reducing the feedback that happens in the > system without having to lose so much gain (volume). I have a theory > that I'd like to experiment with a bit, if we can work with Ruth from > sound. > > Any input on this? > > Thanks, > > Katherine Swem > > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. > Try it now._______________________________________________ > Access mailing list > Access at uueugene.org > http://www.uueugene.org > http://www.uueugene.org/mailman/listinfo/access -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Access mailing list Access at uueugene.org http://www.uueugene.org http://www.uueugene.org/mailman/listinfo/access ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.uueugene.org/pipermail/access/attachments/20080305/eb0699e9/attachment.html From ruthken at pacinfo.com Wed Mar 5 14:06:15 2008 From: ruthken at pacinfo.com (uuRuth Ross) Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2008 12:06:15 -0800 Subject: [Access] [sound] Hearing aids and the service In-Reply-To: <582424.63010.qm@web53906.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <582424.63010.qm@web53906.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <80423A55-F93B-43CD-8790-30B6154B9005@pacinfo.com> Katherine, Thank you soooo much for writing this! I was astonished and bewildered by that announcement. I have inserted other comments in your email below at the ###s (pound signs): On Mar 05, 2008 , at 09:08, Katherine wrote: > On Sunday, there was an announcement at church for anyone wearing > hearing aids to not have them all the way turned up as they would > interfere with the sound system and cause feedback. > > I am an Audiologist and I feel concerned about this request, as I > don't believe hearing aids have anything to do with the sound > system feeding back. I have never heard of this before. ### I absolutely agree with you. I HAVE mentioned to ushers in the past that if they hear someone's hearing aid screeching that they try to locate it and make the wearer aware--but it's certainly not a feedback problem. ### Rachel, who was doing sound second service last Sunday (March 2), left me a note: "A member asked about a feedback problem [which I could not hear] that he has noticed before during moments of no noise. I told him to call you (Ruth) with ideas of how to stop it. It's a very high frequency that is mostly heard by the young. Some other person confirmed hearing it." I [Ruth] can say that during the first service I also heard a (high- frequency?) sound, but my experience is that the room often has this sound. I have heard it when I have been in the room with no equipment plugged in or turned on, and with no lights or furnace on. I believe it must have something to do with the shape of the room and perhaps all the hard surfaces. I have been aware of it's occasional appearance for several years. It goes away after a few minutes. > > I would like to make a suggestion to assist people in learning to > use their hearing aids with our sound system. I would like to > offer to set-up a table during coffee time after the services on > some Sunday and offer to look at people's hearing aids, assist them > in discovering if they have compatible technology with our sound > system, and demonstrate our assistive devices to them. I can also > assess the status of their hearing aids' condition as a plus. ### This is a generous and wonderful offer. I hope we can do this! I will help however I can. > > I am interested in the sound system on several levels. I believe I > may be able to help in reducing the feedback that happens in the > system without having to lose so much gain (volume). I have a > theory that I'd like to experiment with a bit, if we can work with > Ruth from sound. ### I'm very interested in working with you and in hearing your theory. My experience in the past year is that we don't have "feedback." One exception is the following: I don't remember exactly when, but on several (maybe two to four) occasions there WAS feedback--really awful feedback--after the gong (bowl) was struck. At some point when I was preparing for the sound training I discovered that the speaker settings on the amplifier had both been turned WAY high. I returned them to their usual settings and I personally have not heard anything that I could call "feedback" since then. I repeat, I'm very interested in working with you on this situation/ question/.... Ruth copies to: Rachel Cummings, Jake Walsh, Anna Sontag > > Any input on this? > > Thanks, > > Katherine Swem > > > Access mailing list > Access at uueugene.org > http://www.uueugene.org > http://www.uueugene.org/mailman/listinfo/access -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.uueugene.org/pipermail/access/attachments/20080305/894a2475/attachment-0001.html From lucindap at comcast.net Wed Mar 5 16:17:04 2008 From: lucindap at comcast.net (Lucinda Pitcairn) Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2008 14:17:04 -0800 Subject: [Access] co-ordinating council In-Reply-To: <10301d6b9c614228deee80deaad6f326@efn.org> References: <10301d6b9c614228deee80deaad6f326@efn.org> Message-ID: <47CF1BE0.8090707@comcast.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.uueugene.org/pipermail/access/attachments/20080305/9b4d1a5f/attachment.html From maryotten at earthlink.net Wed Mar 5 16:30:02 2008 From: maryotten at earthlink.net (Mary Otten) Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2008 14:30:02 -0800 Subject: [Access] Hearing aids and the service In-Reply-To: <582424.63010.qm@web53906.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Katherine, what a great offer! I hope you can work with both the sound techs and the folks who use hearing aids to make it better for all concerned! mary From KaeserR at earthlink.net Wed Mar 5 19:12:57 2008 From: KaeserR at earthlink.net (Robert Kaeser) Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2008 17:12:57 -0800 Subject: [Access] Hearing aids and the service In-Reply-To: <582424.63010.qm@web53906.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <582424.63010.qm@web53906.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I agree with you, there should not be any feedback from hearing aids. I would be interested in your take of the problem. I have an idea what might have happened, but will have to check it out, maybe Sunday morning. I think your input would be most welcome and helpful. bob K At 09:08 AM 3/5/2008 -0800, you wrote: >On Sunday, there was an announcement at church for anyone wearing >hearing aids to not have them all the way turned up as they would >interfere with the sound system and cause feedback. > >I am an Audiologist and I feel concerned about this request, as I >don't believe hearing aids have anything to do with the sound system >feeding back. I have never heard of this before. > >I would like to make a suggestion to assist people in learning to >use their hearing aids with our sound system. I would like to offer >to set-up a table during coffee time after the services on some >Sunday and offer to look at people's hearing aids, assist them in >discovering if they have compatible technology with our sound >system, and demonstrate our assistive devices to them. I can also >assess the status of their hearing aids' condition as a plus. > >I am interested in the sound system on several levels. I believe I >may be able to help in reducing the feedback that happens in the >system without having to lose so much gain (volume). I have a >theory that I'd like to experiment with a bit, if we can work with >Ruth from sound. > >Any input on this? > >Thanks, > >Katherine Swem > > >Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. >Try >it now. >_______________________________________________ >Access mailing list >Access at uueugene.org >http://www.uueugene.org >http://www.uueugene.org/mailman/listinfo/access "Science, for its progress, its understanding and so on, depends so much on truth and clarity. And the question is: Are we living in a society where truth and clarity are an important element of our culture?" --- I. I. Rabi -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.uueugene.org/pipermail/access/attachments/20080305/76e1b8bc/attachment.html From algaelady at gmail.com Wed Mar 5 20:17:30 2008 From: algaelady at gmail.com (jeannemarie moore) Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2008 18:17:30 -0800 Subject: [Access] [sound] Hearing aids and the service In-Reply-To: <80423A55-F93B-43CD-8790-30B6154B9005@pacinfo.com> References: <582424.63010.qm@web53906.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <80423A55-F93B-43CD-8790-30B6154B9005@pacinfo.com> Message-ID: <004d01c87f30$424735e0$6401a8c0@TheMachine> Hi all, IIIII hear that horrid sound people are talking about, and it about sends me out of the room. It reminds me of the sound that they use to make teens stay away from places... makes me wonder: is the church alarmed upstairs? it reminds me of that sound, or are there light dimmers? They ALSO make that horrid sound... any what used to be called "haligen?" lights, if dimmed at all, make that sound; sometimes fluorescent? lights can make it, if the balasts? are off or the bulbs are beginning to go... but it's a VERY unpleasant sound. I think it is not necessarily hearing aids at all but gosh something's off... There is sometimes a sound in my house that makes me nuts and I just turn it all off, unplug everything, wait 30 seconds, then plug stuff back in and it's better. Good on all those who will work to try to figure this out... Blessing to you, j-m. _____ From: access-bounces at uueugene.org [mailto:access-bounces at uueugene.org] On Behalf Of uuRuth Ross Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 12:06 PM To: Access Issues and Discussion Subject: Re: [Access] [sound] Hearing aids and the service Katherine, Thank you soooo much for writing this! I was astonished and bewildered by that announcement. I have inserted other comments in your email below at the ###s (pound signs): On Mar 05, 2008 , at 09:08, Katherine wrote: On Sunday, there was an announcement at church for anyone wearing hearing aids to not have them all the way turned up as they would interfere with the sound system and cause feedback. I am an Audiologist and I feel concerned about this request, as I don't believe hearing aids have anything to do with the sound system feeding back. I have never heard of this before. ### I absolutely agree with you. I HAVE mentioned to ushers in the past that if they hear someone's hearing aid screeching that they try to locate it and make the wearer aware--but it's certainly not a feedback problem. ### Rachel, who was doing sound second service last Sunday (March 2), left me a note: "A member asked about a feedback problem [which I could not hear] that he has noticed before during moments of no noise. I told him to call you (Ruth) with ideas of how to stop it. It's a very high frequency that is mostly heard by the young. Some other person confirmed hearing it." I [Ruth] can say that during the first service I also heard a (high-frequency?) sound, but my experience is that the room often has this sound. I have heard it when I have been in the room with no equipment plugged in or turned on, and with no lights or furnace on. I believe it must have something to do with the shape of the room and perhaps all the hard surfaces. I have been aware of it's occasional appearance for several years. It goes away after a few minutes. I would like to make a suggestion to assist people in learning to use their hearing aids with our sound system. I would like to offer to set-up a table during coffee time after the services on some Sunday and offer to look at people's hearing aids, assist them in discovering if they have compatible technology with our sound system, and demonstrate our assistive devices to them. I can also assess the status of their hearing aids' condition as a plus. ### This is a generous and wonderful offer. I hope we can do this! I will help however I can. I am interested in the sound system on several levels. I believe I may be able to help in reducing the feedback that happens in the system without having to lose so much gain (volume). I have a theory that I'd like to experiment with a bit, if we can work with Ruth from sound. ### I'm very interested in working with you and in hearing your theory. My experience in the past year is that we don't have "feedback." One exception is the following: I don't remember exactly when, but on several (maybe two to four) occasions there WAS feedback--really awful feedback--after the gong (bowl) was struck. At some point when I was preparing for the sound training I discovered that the speaker settings on the amplifier had both been turned WAY high. I returned them to their usual settings and I personally have not heard anything that I could call "feedback" since then. I repeat, I'm very interested in working with you on this situation/question/.... Ruth copies to: Rachel Cummings, Jake Walsh, Anna Sontag Any input on this? Thanks, Katherine Swem Access mailing list Access at uueugene.org http://www.uueugene.org http://www.uueugene.org/mailman/listinfo/access -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.uueugene.org/pipermail/access/attachments/20080305/a2ff6728/attachment-0001.html From webmaster at uueugene.org Wed Mar 5 22:18:15 2008 From: webmaster at uueugene.org (UUCE Webmaster) Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2008 20:18:15 -0800 Subject: [Access] Hearing Aids and the service References: Message-ID: <8961FD9F-F2B6-45F0-ABE8-698090187B39@uueugene.org> Begin forwarded message: > From: Rachel Cummings > Date: March 5, 2008 12:37:50 PM PST > To: "'uuRuth Ross'" , Access Issues and > Discussion > Subject: [Access] [sound] Hearing aids and the service > > > Ruth-- > > I know many of us leave the pulpit mic and/or flexible mic un-muted > for convenience even when the mics are not in use. I thought > perhaps during meditation periods (when the fellow said the high > frequency pitch was most annoying) I will mute them. I don't know > if this situation is a source of a feedback problem, but it is a > small thing that may help with no technical changes required. > > The fellow who talked with me did say he has heard this feedback > before at services, and once there is sound again the feedback > disappears. He was perhaps in his late forties and seemed > experienced with sound (I didn't know him). He said he has > unusually good hearing (like teenagers) and that this was > definitely a feedback problem from our sound systems. > > I did ask another sound person if they heard the feedback during > the services and was told, that they had been told, it was from > hearing aids! I was surprised to hear this too-probably a > misconception has gotten out of control. > > Good luck and keep me posted. As always, I am willing to following > your expert direction. I like everyone to be happy too. > > Rachel > From lucindap at comcast.net Sun Mar 9 01:55:41 2008 From: lucindap at comcast.net (Cindy Pitcairn) Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2008 23:55:41 -0800 Subject: [Access] Immobility at the Auction Message-ID: <47D397FD.6030503@comcast.net> I feel discouraged, to say the least, at my experience trying to attend the UUCE auction tonight. The traffic pattern could hardly have been worse. With buffet tables lining the hallways and people gathered in front of them, it was almost impossible to move my wheelchair anywhere. People did help me to get through to the main room. (Forget about food--not much of a chance for that, though someone did offer to get me a brownie or something!) Once in the room it was impossible to get to the sides to view the items up for silent auction. There was not enough room to turn my wheelchair around to get out of the room without crashing into a walker, which had been set in the aisleway. In my attempt to turn, I knocked over the walker and broke the wineglass sitting on it. At that point I decided to leave. I certainly didn't get the impression that the church offered much more space than our own, and the way it was set up made maneuverability almost impossible, at least for me. I'm particularly unhappy because I offered to look at the facility ahead of time but my offer was refused. I also had sent accessibility guidelines that stated hallways should be kept clear of things set against the walls. I know the people organizing the auction were well intentioned and worked very hard. I've no doubt it made lots of money for the church. I know I'm only one elderly and disabled person and probably was the only one of our wheelchair users foolish enough to try to participate. However, I had been assured I would have no problem. Next week is the music soiree (talent show), another event I used to enjoy. However, I found out at the Coordinating Council this morning that they still plan to set up some tables (but fewer than last year) in the sanctuary because people find it so difficult to balance a glass of wine and food on their laps. So I doubt I will attempt to go to that event. It is wonderful that our church is attracting so many people who feel welcome there, but I am feeling more than a little disenfranchised. I miss the church where I felt I could take part in events like this. Cindy From maryotten at earthlink.net Sun Mar 9 10:18:07 2008 From: maryotten at earthlink.net (mary otten) Date: Sun, 09 Mar 2008 07:18:07 -0800 Subject: [Access] Immobility at the Auction In-Reply-To: <47D397FD.6030503@comcast.net> References: <47D397FD.6030503@comcast.net> Message-ID: <20080309151807.maryotten@earthlink.net> cindy, i was wondering if you or anyone else who uses a wheelchair attended the auction, and how it was. it did seem to me that the other church had more room. but the crowding was still quite apparent. what is most disturbing about this is the fact that your offer to go check the place out was turned down. i suspect that this space problem isn't going to go away any time soon. but an offer of help should not have been dismissed. i did not attend the music event last year due to issues of crowding, and i don't have the same issues with space as you do. it would be great if we could find some cost effective solution for this issue, idde. a place that does not cost prohibitively to rent that is accessible with enough space for people who use mobility devices to maneuver with reasonable ease and all to feel comfortable and welcome. at the very least, if a venue isn't suitable and no better one can be obtained, then notice to that affect needs to go out before the event, so people don'! t have bad experiences and feel misled by assurances that all will be well. i forget the name of the person who will be auction lead next year. but i think it will be important to get with them and with the events committee to ensure that we try to find better venues and, if best faith efforts don't turn up anything good, that people are notified ahead of time. mary From barbprentice at comcast.net Sun Mar 9 10:55:27 2008 From: barbprentice at comcast.net (Barb Prentice) Date: Sun, 09 Mar 2008 08:55:27 -0700 Subject: [Access] Immobility at the Auction In-Reply-To: <47D397FD.6030503@comcast.net> References: <47D397FD.6030503@comcast.net> Message-ID: <200803091550.m29Fo5t0006236@host.uuserver.net> Cindy, I'm so sorry that you were not able to participate last night. I know the people working on the auction were well intentioned, but it was obvious that someone in a wheelchair would find maneuvering nearly impossible. I hope that we can continue to work on these issues and that we include them from every angle when we plan our new space. Barb At 12:55 AM 3/9/2008, you wrote: >I feel discouraged, to say the least, at my experience trying to attend >the UUCE auction tonight. The traffic pattern could hardly have been >worse. With buffet tables lining the hallways and people gathered in >front of them, it was almost impossible to move my wheelchair anywhere. > >People did help me to get through to the main room. (Forget about >food--not much of a chance for that, though someone did offer to get me >a brownie or something!) Once in the room it was impossible to get to >the sides to view the items up for silent auction. There was not enough >room to turn my wheelchair around to get out of the room without >crashing into a walker, which had been set in the aisleway. In my >attempt to turn, I knocked over the walker and broke the wineglass >sitting on it. At that point I decided to leave. > >I certainly didn't get the impression that the church offered much more >space than our own, and the way it was set up made maneuverability >almost impossible, at least for me. I'm particularly unhappy because I >offered to look at the facility ahead of time but my offer was refused. >I also had sent accessibility guidelines that stated hallways should be >kept clear of things set against the walls. > >I know the people organizing the auction were well intentioned and >worked very hard. I've no doubt it made lots of money for the church. I >know I'm only one elderly and disabled person and probably was the only >one of our wheelchair users foolish enough to try to participate. >However, I had been assured I would have no problem. > >Next week is the music soiree (talent show), another event I used to >enjoy. However, I found out at the Coordinating Council this morning >that they still plan to set up some tables (but fewer than last year) in >the sanctuary because people find it so difficult to balance a glass of >wine and food on their laps. So I doubt I will attempt to go to that event. > >It is wonderful that our church is attracting so many people who feel >welcome there, but I am feeling more than a little disenfranchised. I >miss the church where I felt I could take part in events like this. > >Cindy > > >_______________________________________________ >Access mailing list >Access at uueugene.org >http://www.uueugene.org >http://www.uueugene.org/mailman/listinfo/access From lucindap at comcast.net Sun Mar 9 12:31:05 2008 From: lucindap at comcast.net (Cindy Pitcairn) Date: Sun, 09 Mar 2008 10:31:05 -0700 Subject: [Access] Immobility at the Auction In-Reply-To: <20080309151807.maryotten@earthlink.net> References: <47D397FD.6030503@comcast.net> <20080309151807.maryotten@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <47D41ED9.9080700@comcast.net> Mary, Thanks for your comments, and yes, we do have our work cut out for us! Cindy From algaelady at gmail.com Sun Mar 9 17:37:20 2008 From: algaelady at gmail.com (jeannemarie moore) Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2008 15:37:20 -0700 Subject: [Access] Immobility at the Auction In-Reply-To: <47D397FD.6030503@comcast.net> References: <47D397FD.6030503@comcast.net> Message-ID: <003001c88236$237145d0$6401a8c0@TheMachine> Hi Cindy, The auction did apparently raise money... I was told "NARROW passageway several times to get through spaces... it was astonishing to me... the microphone cords were not taped down and it was challenging for folks to navigate, not just you. My offer was refused also. I was told it would be accessible and stuff would be "all under control." I do not know what to say to you except you are not the only person who noticed and whose offer was refused. On a different note, much more positive: today when I came into church by myself, two or three different people asked if I needed assistance and when I explained what would be helpful, those things happened. I felt hopeful about that. It was incredibly access tight getting around, it appeared though, in the sanctuary... I was asked to "move forward" so someone could get by and gosh, the table was really into my ribs already... I think with such a thing the lunch, as yummy as it was, might have to be done differently to include all the interested people... We have our diplomatic work cut out for us, I guess... j-m. -----Original Message----- From: access-bounces at uueugene.org [mailto:access-bounces at uueugene.org] On Behalf Of Cindy Pitcairn Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2008 11:56 PM To: Accessibility group Subject: [Access] Immobility at the Auction I feel discouraged, to say the least, at my experience trying to attend the UUCE auction tonight. The traffic pattern could hardly have been worse. With buffet tables lining the hallways and people gathered in front of them, it was almost impossible to move my wheelchair anywhere. People did help me to get through to the main room. (Forget about food--not much of a chance for that, though someone did offer to get me a brownie or something!) Once in the room it was impossible to get to the sides to view the items up for silent auction. There was not enough room to turn my wheelchair around to get out of the room without crashing into a walker, which had been set in the aisleway. In my attempt to turn, I knocked over the walker and broke the wineglass sitting on it. At that point I decided to leave. I certainly didn't get the impression that the church offered much more space than our own, and the way it was set up made maneuverability almost impossible, at least for me. I'm particularly unhappy because I offered to look at the facility ahead of time but my offer was refused. I also had sent accessibility guidelines that stated hallways should be kept clear of things set against the walls. I know the people organizing the auction were well intentioned and worked very hard. I've no doubt it made lots of money for the church. I know I'm only one elderly and disabled person and probably was the only one of our wheelchair users foolish enough to try to participate. However, I had been assured I would have no problem. Next week is the music soiree (talent show), another event I used to enjoy. However, I found out at the Coordinating Council this morning that they still plan to set up some tables (but fewer than last year) in the sanctuary because people find it so difficult to balance a glass of wine and food on their laps. So I doubt I will attempt to go to that event. It is wonderful that our church is attracting so many people who feel welcome there, but I am feeling more than a little disenfranchised. I miss the church where I felt I could take part in events like this. Cindy _______________________________________________ Access mailing list Access at uueugene.org http://www.uueugene.org http://www.uueugene.org/mailman/listinfo/access From maryotten at earthlink.net Sun Mar 9 19:43:43 2008 From: maryotten at earthlink.net (mary otten) Date: Sun, 09 Mar 2008 17:43:43 -0700 Subject: [Access] FW: May 2nd conference... In-Reply-To: <001901c87e4a$bf831e20$6401a8c0@TheMachine> References: <001901c87e4a$bf831e20$6401a8c0@TheMachine> Message-ID: <20080310004343.maryotten@earthlink.net> at yesterday's co-ordinating council meeting, cindy mentioned that a couple of folks from the accessibility committee are probably going to this portland conference. i'd be interested to know who is going and whether you plan to go the day before and stay over, or whether you plan to drive up and back the day of the conference. mary From lucindap at comcast.net Sun Mar 9 20:13:52 2008 From: lucindap at comcast.net (Cindy Pitcairn) Date: Sun, 09 Mar 2008 18:13:52 -0700 Subject: [Access] FW: May 2nd conference... In-Reply-To: <20080310004343.maryotten@earthlink.net> References: <001901c87e4a$bf831e20$6401a8c0@TheMachine> <20080310004343.maryotten@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <47D48B50.3040602@comcast.net> mary otten wrote: > at yesterday's co-ordinating council meeting, cindy mentioned that a couple of folks from the accessibility committee are probably going to this portland conference. i'd be interested to know who is going and whether you plan to go the day before and stay over, or whether you plan to drive up and back the day of the conference. > > mary > _______________________________________________ > Access mailing list > Access at uueugene.org > http://www.uueugene.org > http://www.uueugene.org/mailman/listinfo/access > > Mary, I'm not able to drive that distance and back on my own, so unless I can dredge up another driver who wants to go with me, I don't see how I can make it. David may be planning to go, but I can't speak for him other than to say that I found him a very good driver when we went to Tacoma for the PNWD AGM. Jeanne-Marie has said she wants to go up. Unfortunately, because of the space needed for my power chair in my van, it has room for only one passenger and I would need that to be someone who can help drive. Cindy. From mariah at efn.org Sun Mar 9 22:14:48 2008 From: mariah at efn.org (d. maria) Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2008 19:14:48 -0800 Subject: [Access] Immobility at the Auction In-Reply-To: <003001c88236$237145d0$6401a8c0@TheMachine> References: <47D397FD.6030503@comcast.net> <003001c88236$237145d0$6401a8c0@TheMachine> Message-ID: OK, this is the part where you-all sit on me and hold me down. I am furious!!! I didn't go to the auction for other "accessibility"** reasons, but with all the discussions about the crowding from last year and the offers of assistance, for this to happen is inexcusable. Well intentioned or not, one does not turn down offers of help however much you don't think you need them. Sue is a retired Physical Therapist, so I can understand why she might think she didn't need help... because of this, I believed her, but that is still no excuse. Raising money is not the ONLY reason for the Auction, but it has become the most important one and I, for one, am tired of being considered not-important-enough to accommodate. I think we have to do something about the Soiree, and fast. Someone can be present when it is set-up with a tape measure. I will be happy to be a support person for this. Matt just does what he's told... he will do better if we give him the numbers. What do you-all think? dm ** Our church auctions, for me, are like window shopping on Park Ave., NY with no money and no hope of any, ever. Even the events you can buy for $5.00 don't include me. I have bought 3 over the years and they have always been held when I couldn't go. The last one I only bid on because it was a date I was available... but, they changed the date. Now I don't mind donating $5.00 to the auction, but the process of going to a party and bidding on something fun to do with other UUCE'ers, and look forward to, for nothing... isn't my idea of fun. On Mar 9, 2008, at 2:37 PM, jeannemarie moore wrote: > Hi Cindy, > > The auction did apparently raise money... I was told "NARROW passageway > several times to get through spaces... it was astonishing to me... the > microphone cords were not taped down and it was challenging for folks > to > navigate, not just you. > My offer was refused also. I was told it would be accessible and stuff > would be "all under control." > I do not know what to say to you except you are not the only person who > noticed and whose offer was refused. > > On a different note, much more positive: > > today when I came into church by myself, two or three different people > asked > if I needed assistance and when I explained what would be helpful, > those > things happened. > I felt hopeful about that. > It was incredibly access tight getting around, it appeared though, in > the > sanctuary... I was asked to "move forward" so someone could get by and > gosh, > the table was really into my ribs already... > I think with such a thing the lunch, as yummy as it was, might have to > be > done differently to include all the interested people... > We have our diplomatic work cut out for us, I guess... > > j-m. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: access-bounces at uueugene.org [mailto:access-bounces at uueugene.org] > On > Behalf Of Cindy Pitcairn > Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2008 11:56 PM > To: Accessibility group > Subject: [Access] Immobility at the Auction > > I feel discouraged, to say the least, at my experience trying to > attend the > UUCE auction tonight. The traffic pattern could hardly have been > worse. With > buffet tables lining the hallways and people gathered in front of > them, it > was almost impossible to move my wheelchair anywhere. > > People did help me to get through to the main room. (Forget about > food--not > much of a chance for that, though someone did offer to get me a > brownie or > something!) Once in the room it was impossible to get to the sides to > view > the items up for silent auction. There was not enough room to turn my > wheelchair around to get out of the room without crashing into a > walker, > which had been set in the aisleway. In my attempt to turn, I knocked > over > the walker and broke the wineglass sitting on it. At that point I > decided to > leave. > > I certainly didn't get the impression that the church offered much more > space than our own, and the way it was set up made maneuverability > almost > impossible, at least for me. I'm particularly unhappy because I > offered to > look at the facility ahead of time but my offer was refused. > I also had sent accessibility guidelines that stated hallways should > be kept > clear of things set against the walls. > > I know the people organizing the auction were well intentioned and > worked > very hard. I've no doubt it made lots of money for the church. I know > I'm > only one elderly and disabled person and probably was the only one of > our > wheelchair users foolish enough to try to participate. > However, I had been assured I would have no problem. > > Next week is the music soiree (talent show), another event I used to > enjoy. > However, I found out at the Coordinating Council this morning that they > still plan to set up some tables (but fewer than last year) in the > sanctuary > because people find it so difficult to balance a glass of wine and > food on > their laps. So I doubt I will attempt to go to that event. > > It is wonderful that our church is attracting so many people who feel > welcome there, but I am feeling more than a little disenfranchised. I > miss > the church where I felt I could take part in events like this. > > Cindy > > > _______________________________________________ > Access mailing list > Access at uueugene.org > http://www.uueugene.org > http://www.uueugene.org/mailman/listinfo/access > > _______________________________________________ > Access mailing list > Access at uueugene.org > http://www.uueugene.org > http://www.uueugene.org/mailman/listinfo/access > From maryotten at earthlink.net Mon Mar 10 00:32:31 2008 From: maryotten at earthlink.net (mary otten) Date: Sun, 09 Mar 2008 22:32:31 -0700 Subject: [Access] Immobility at the Auction In-Reply-To: References: <47D397FD.6030503@comcast.net> <003001c88236$237145d0$6401a8c0@TheMachine> Message-ID: <20080310053231.maryotten@earthlink.net> i think the problems point up the necessity of having the check list. but also, i think this whole situation with insufficient space points out the absurdity of calling things like the ada civil rights laws. it is a fact, whether we who have disabilities like to admit it or not, that accommodating our needs is sometimes quite different from accommodating the needs or rights of, say people of color or people who are gay. if you pass a law that says people of color have the right to vote, of course, you still have to look out and make sure obstacles aren't placed in their way. if you pass a law that gives gay couples the right to the same things straight people have, you still have to watch and make sure it happens, of course. but all those things are matters of enforcement that don't require any change to existing physical structures. they don't require changes to the physical environment. the problem i have with the auction is that cindy's offer to go check things out was ! turned down. while i do not like it, i am not sure that it would be possible to find a place that we can afford that is laid out such that there is sufficient space to accommodate all. what we have the right to expect, in my view, is the best faith effort to find such a place and an honest assessment, with our input, of the place that is eventually found. as for the music thing, i'm guessing its way too late to do much about that this yearthe fact is it was way too crowded last year. people had to stand. our building is just too small to accommodate all those who wish to come. mariah, what would you suggest we do about the music show next weekend? seems like its too close to do anything about it. i'd love it if it could be in a larger place. but a week before the event, i don't see what can be done. mary ----- Original Message ----- From: "do. maria" To: Access Issues and Discussion , algaelady at gmail.com Date: 2008/03/10 03:12:40 Subject: Re: [Access] Immobility at the Auction > > > OK, this is the part where you-all sit on me and hold me down. I am > furious!!! I didn't go to the auction for other "accessibility?inin* > reasons, but with all the discussions about the crowding from last year > and the offers of assistance, for this to happen is inexcusable. Well > intentioned or not, one does not turn down offers of help however much > you don't think you need them. Sue is a retired Physical Therapist, so > I can understand why she might think she didn't need help... because of > this, I believed her, but that is still no excuse. Raising money is > not the ONLY reason for the Auction, but it has become the most > important one and I, for one, am tired of being considered > not-important-enough to accommodate. I think we have to do something > about the Soiree, and fast. Someone can be present when it is set-up > with a tape measure. I will be happy to be a support person for this. > Matt just does what he's told... he will do better if we give him the > numbers. What do you-all think? dm > > inin* Our church auctions, for me, are like window shopping on Park Ave., > NY with no money and no hope of any, ever. Even the events you can buy > for $5.00 don't include me. I have bought 3 over the years and they > have always been held when I couldn't go. The last one I only bid on > because it was a date I was available... but, they changed the date. > Now I don't mind donating $5.00 to the auction, but the process of > going to a party and bidding on something fun to do with other > UUCE'ERS, and look forward to, for nothing... isn't my idea of fun. > On Mar 9, 2008, at 2:37 PM, jeannemarie moore wrote: > > > Hi Cindy, > > > > The auction did apparently raise money... I was told "NARROW passageway > > several times to get through spaces... it was astonishing to me... the > > microphone cords were not taped down and it was challenging for folks > > to > > navigate, not just you. > > My offer was refused also. I was told it would be accessible and stuff > > would be "all under control." > > I do not know what to say to you except you are not the only person who > > noticed and whose offer was refused. > > > > On a different note, much more positive: > > > > today when I came into church by myself, two or three different people > > asked > > if I needed assistance and when I explained what would be helpful, > > those > > things happened. > > I felt hopeful about that. > > It was incredibly access tight getting around, it appeared though, in > > the > > sanctuary... I was asked to "move forward" so someone could get by and > > gosh, > > the table was really into my ribs already... > > I think with such a thing the lunch, as yummy as it was, might have to > > be > > done differently to include all the interested p... > > We have our diplomatic work cut out for us, I guess... > > > > j-more. > > > > > > > > > > ----comOriginal Message----- > > From: access-bounces at uueugene.org [mailto:access-bounces at uueugene.org] > > On > > Behalf Of Cindy Pitcairn > > Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2008 11:56 PM > > To: Accessibility group > > Subject: [Access] Immobility at the Auction > > > > I feel discouraged, to say the least, at my experience trying to > > attend the > > UUCE auction tonight. The traffic pattern could hardly have been > > worse. With > > buffet tables lining the hallways and people gathered in front of > > them, it > > was almost impossible to move my wheelchair anywhere. > > > > People did help me to get through to the main room. (Forget about > > food--not > > much of a chance for that, though someone did offer to get me a > > brownie or > > something!) Once in the room it was impossible to get to the sides to > > view > > the items up for silent auction. There was not enough room to turn my > > wheelchair around to get out of the room without crashing into a > > walker, > > which had been set in the aisleway. In my attempt to turn, I knocked > > over > > the walker and broke the wineglass sitting on it. At that point I > > decided to > > leave. > > > > I certainly didn't get the impression that the church offered much more > > space than our own, and the way it was set up made maneuverability > > almost > > impossible, at least for me. I'm particularly unhappy because I > > offered to > > look at the facility ahead of time but my offer was refused. > > I also had sent accessibility guidelines that stated hallways should > > be kept > > clear of things set against the walls. > > > > I know the people organizing the auction were well intentioned and > > worked > > very hard. I've no doubt it made lots of money for the church. I know > > I'm > > only one elderly and disabled person and probably was the only one of > > our > > wheelchair users foolish enough to try to participate. > > However, I had been assured I would have no problem. > > > > Next week is the music soiree (talent show), another event I used to > > enjoy. > > However, I found out at the Coordinating Council this morning that they > > still plan to set up some tables (but fewer than last year) in the > > sanctuary > > because people find it so difficult to balance a glass of wine and > > food on > > their laps. So I doubt I will attempt to go to that event. > > > > It is wonderful that our church is attracting so many people who feel > > welcome there, but I am feeling more than a little disenfranchised. I > > miss > > the church where I felt I could take part in events like this. > > > > Cindy > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Access mailing list > > Access at uueugene.org > > http://www.uueugene.org > > http://www.uueugene.org/mailman/listinfo/access > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Access mailing list > > Access at uueugene.org > > http://www.uueugene.org > > http://www.uueugene.org/mailman/listinfo/access > > > > _______________________________________________ > Access mailing list > Access at uueugene.org > http://www.uueugene.org > http://www.uueugene.org/mailman/listinfo/access From maryotten at earthlink.net Mon Mar 10 00:50:01 2008 From: maryotten at earthlink.net (mary otten) Date: Sun, 09 Mar 2008 22:50:01 -0700 Subject: [Access] Immobility at the Auction In-Reply-To: References: <47D397FD.6030503@comcast.net> <003001c88236$237145d0$6401a8c0@TheMachine> Message-ID: <20080310055001.maryotten@earthlink.net> i wanted to make one other comment. i don't think its a matter of people not thinking we are not important enough to accommodate. its always a matter of competing interests, what a uu on another list called competing covenants, in a slightly different context. here's a hypothetical scenario. what would you do if you were the auction leader and you learned that we had two choices of venue. one has lots of room, but we will have to pay 4 thousand dollars to rent it. the other is adequate for most people, but its limited such that if you use a mobility device like a wheelchair, you are going to have serious issues navigating. this place costs 1000 dollars to rent. do you pay the extra 3k to ensure that their is enough space for absolutely all? do you do that knowing that the amount you raise will likely fall short of what was needed based on the budget for the year? what if the spacious location cost just 1k more, but it was out in coburg? so maybe attendance will be dow! n from normal. this is why i say accessibility rights are different from civil rights. From lucindap at comcast.net Mon Mar 10 02:04:50 2008 From: lucindap at comcast.net (Cindy Pitcairn) Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 00:04:50 -0700 Subject: [Access] Immobility at the Auction In-Reply-To: <20080310055001.maryotten@earthlink.net> References: <47D397FD.6030503@comcast.net> <003001c88236$237145d0$6401a8c0@TheMachine> <20080310055001.maryotten@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <47D4DD92.7010102@comcast.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.uueugene.org/pipermail/access/attachments/20080310/88b82edc/attachment.html From lucindap at comcast.net Mon Mar 10 02:17:56 2008 From: lucindap at comcast.net (Cindy Pitcairn) Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 00:17:56 -0700 Subject: [Access] Immobility at the Auction In-Reply-To: References: <47D397FD.6030503@comcast.net> <003001c88236$237145d0$6401a8c0@TheMachine> Message-ID: <47D4E0A4.6070805@comcast.net> d. maria wrote: > OK, this is the part where you-all sit on me and hold me down. maria, I am sitting on you and although I myself may not weigh all that much, my wheelchair does. :-D For me, this is mainly a space issue and the problem, as I see it, is to try to help event planners think in new terms. The people who set up for the auction thought that they were allowing enough space for wheelchair access, they just didn't take into account the people who would gather in front of tables of food in hallways and in front of the silent auction tables making for impassibility. Maybe having a few marshals to guide the hungry people into a single file would have helped. Maybe having food in just one hallway would have worked better. In the case of the Music soiree, perhaps the food could be made available after the show instead of during it, so that tables wouldn't need to be set up at all in the sanctuary. Just random thoughts which I offer to suggest that because we have grown so much in numbers, maybe we need to think up new configurations. Cindy From maryotten at earthlink.net Mon Mar 10 11:12:41 2008 From: maryotten at earthlink.net (Mary Otten) Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 09:12:41 -0700 Subject: [Access] Immobility at the Auction In-Reply-To: <47D4DD92.7010102@comcast.net> Message-ID: Cindy, I absolutely agree with you that the conditions of the place where an event is to be held must be understood and widely advertised, so that people don't go there thinking it'll be fine, and then its not. We wouldn't do that with childcare, for example, nor should we. And your examples about other ways to raise funds are also wel taken. Naturally, if people did that extra pledging you described, we'd find things to put in the budget that are now left out due to insufficient funds , e.g. leadership development, funds to help people go to conferences who can't pay for it on their own, more paid staff such as a volunteer co-ordinator, assistant minister, etc. I wonder if Brian's events committee is going to be involved with events outside church or also those at church, such as the music thing in future years. That would be another avenue for education regarding possible alternative configurations. But I do wonder how the heck you could configure a place such that all the people who can stand and talk or browse will do so and yet there will still be room for people who use wheelchairs or walkers to get through and see items. Mary From lucindap at comcast.net Mon Mar 10 12:21:59 2008 From: lucindap at comcast.net (Cindy Pitcairn) Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 10:21:59 -0700 Subject: [Access] Immobility at the Auction In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <47D56E37.9030906@comcast.net> Mary Otten wrote: > I wonder if Brian's events committee is going to be involved with events outside church or also > those at church, such as the music thing in future years. That would be > another avenue for education regarding possible alternative > configurations. In talking to Brian at the CC, I found out his committee sees its primary function as the development of a policy manual based on the one used by the Corvallis church. Thus my enthusiasm for doing one tailored to our church would duplicate their efforts and most likely not be used. However, I imagine they are open to including accessibility items in their manual. This raises another question which David mentioned in an e-mail to me and which I quote without his permission: > We usually think of accessibility as something for people with > disabilities -- such as wheelchair users like yourself. But I felt as > though the too small space for all the people, exhibits, and > activities presented accessibility problems for many people: > circulation problems, difficulties in obtaining food and finding some > place where one could comfortably eat it, difficulties in seeing > auction items on the window-sides of tables or against the windows, > and in having sign-up sheets readily at hand, for example. Back to Mary: > But I do wonder how the heck you could configure a > place such that all the people who can stand and talk or browse will do > so and yet there will still be room for people who use wheelchairs or > walkers to get through and see items. > This can be done, but it does call for more space to be feasible. At the PNWD AGM there were some buffets and they presented no accessibility problems. When they anticipated not enough space for breakfast seating, they asked everyone to find "breakfast buddies" and reach an agreement that one would arrive early (7-8 am) and the other later (8-9 am). This worked very well. At the most crowded event--the banquet at which Rebecca Parker spoke--they announced in advance that it would be crowded and urged people to come early, but also had usher/greeters at the door to help people find a seat. It was crowded but orderly and everyone was treated with respect, There was a room with vendors where people were browsing and just gathering and chatting and I had no difficulty getting around. It was a large round room, however. I think with limited space, perhaps the different activities involved in an event need to be timed separately. Thus, if the music soiree had refreshments after the show instead of during it, there would still be an impassable crowd for me in the social hall after the talent show. However, there would be more space for seating for everyone in the sanctuary without tables set up for eating and I would at least be able to take in the show. We can't expect an event to serve several different functions in one time and place when large numbers of people are involved. Them's my thoughts for the moment. Cindy From mariah at efn.org Mon Mar 10 15:03:14 2008 From: mariah at efn.org (d. maria) Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 12:03:14 -0800 Subject: [Access] Immobility at the Auction In-Reply-To: <20080310053231.maryotten@earthlink.net> References: <47D397FD.6030503@comcast.net> <003001c88236$237145d0$6401a8c0@TheMachine> <20080310053231.maryotten@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <30d1cc381bd8c40b9dbb5f98e11678d4@efn.org> We could get permission to work with Matt as he sets up, and require that there be NO tables in the sanctuary. I think that the right to be able to get from point A to point B and attend, trumps the right to not have to juggle your wine glass. If that wine glass is a priority, they can "sit" in the social hall, lobby or library. That is what I would like to (and believe is possible) do before next Saturday. What do others (you) think? I am willing to let someone more diplomatic do the talking to people to get permission... thnx, dm On Mar 9, 2008, at 9:32 PM, mary otten wrote: > i think the problems point up the necessity of having the check list. > but also, i think this whole situation with insufficient space points > out the absurdity of calling things like the ada civil rights laws. > it is a fact, whether we who have disabilities like to admit it or > not, that accommodating our needs is sometimes quite different from > accommodating the needs or rights of, say people of color or people > who are gay. if you pass a law that says people of color have the > right to vote, of course, you still have to look out and make sure > obstacles aren't placed in their way. if you pass a law that gives gay > couples the right to the same things straight people have, you still > have to watch and make sure it happens, of course. but all those > things are matters of enforcement that don't require any change to > existing physical structures. they don't require changes to the > physical environment. the problem i have with the auction is that > cindy's offer to go check things out was ! > turned down. while i do not like it, i am not sure that it would be > possible to find a place that we can afford that is laid out such > that there is sufficient space to accommodate all. what we have the > right to expect, in my view, is the best faith effort to find such a > place and an honest assessment, with our input, of the place that is > eventually found. > as for the music thing, i'm guessing its way too late to do much about > that this yearthe fact is it was way too crowded last year. people had > to stand. our building is just too small to accommodate all those who > wish to come. > mariah, what would you suggest we do about the music show next > weekend? seems like its too close to do anything about it. i'd love it > if it could be in a larger place. but a week before the event, i don't > see what can be done. > mary > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "do. maria" > To: Access Issues and Discussion , > algaelady at gmail.com > Date: 2008/03/10 03:12:40 > Subject: Re: [Access] Immobility at the Auction > >> >> >> OK, this is the part where you-all sit on me and hold me down. I am >> furious!!! I didn't go to the auction for other "accessibility?inin* >> reasons, but with all the discussions about the crowding from last >> year >> and the offers of assistance, for this to happen is inexcusable. Well >> intentioned or not, one does not turn down offers of help however much >> you don't think you need them. Sue is a retired Physical Therapist, >> so >> I can understand why she might think she didn't need help... because >> of >> this, I believed her, but that is still no excuse. Raising money is >> not the ONLY reason for the Auction, but it has become the most >> important one and I, for one, am tired of being considered >> not-important-enough to accommodate. I think we have to do something >> about the Soiree, and fast. Someone can be present when it is set-up >> with a tape measure. I will be happy to be a support person for this. >> Matt just does what he's told... he will do better if we give him the >> numbers. What do you-all think? dm >> >> inin* Our church auctions, for me, are like window shopping on Park >> Ave., >> NY with no money and no hope of any, ever. Even the events you can >> buy >> for $5.00 don't include me. I have bought 3 over the years and they >> have always been held when I couldn't go. The last one I only bid on >> because it was a date I was available... but, they changed the date. >> Now I don't mind donating $5.00 to the auction, but the process of >> going to a party and bidding on something fun to do with other >> UUCE'ERS, and look forward to, for nothing... isn't my idea of fun. >> On Mar 9, 2008, at 2:37 PM, jeannemarie moore wrote: >> >>> Hi Cindy, >>> >>> The auction did apparently raise money... I was told "NARROW >>> passageway >>> several times to get through spaces... it was astonishing to me... >>> the >>> microphone cords were not taped down and it was challenging for folks >>> to >>> navigate, not just you. >>> My offer was refused also. I was told it would be accessible and >>> stuff >>> would be "all under control." >>> I do not know what to say to you except you are not the only person >>> who >>> noticed and whose offer was refused. >>> >>> On a different note, much more positive: >>> >>> today when I came into church by myself, two or three different >>> people >>> asked >>> if I needed assistance and when I explained what would be helpful, >>> those >>> things happened. >>> I felt hopeful about that. >>> It was incredibly access tight getting around, it appeared though, in >>> the >>> sanctuary... I was asked to "move forward" so someone could get by >>> and >>> gosh, >>> the table was really into my ribs already... >>> I think with such a thing the lunch, as yummy as it was, might have >>> to >>> be >>> done differently to include all the interested p... >>> We have our diplomatic work cut out for us, I guess... >>> >>> j-more. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ----comOriginal Message----- >>> From: access-bounces at uueugene.org >>> [mailto:access-bounces at uueugene.org] >>> On >>> Behalf Of Cindy Pitcairn >>> Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2008 11:56 PM >>> To: Accessibility group >>> Subject: [Access] Immobility at the Auction >>> >>> I feel discouraged, to say the least, at my experience trying to >>> attend the >>> UUCE auction tonight. The traffic pattern could hardly have been >>> worse. With >>> buffet tables lining the hallways and people gathered in front of >>> them, it >>> was almost impossible to move my wheelchair anywhere. >>> >>> People did help me to get through to the main room. (Forget about >>> food--not >>> much of a chance for that, though someone did offer to get me a >>> brownie or >>> something!) Once in the room it was impossible to get to the sides >>> to >>> view >>> the items up for silent auction. There was not enough room to turn my >>> wheelchair around to get out of the room without crashing into a >>> walker, >>> which had been set in the aisleway. In my attempt to turn, I knocked >>> over >>> the walker and broke the wineglass sitting on it. At that point I >>> decided to >>> leave. >>> >>> I certainly didn't get the impression that the church offered much >>> more >>> space than our own, and the way it was set up made maneuverability >>> almost >>> impossible, at least for me. I'm particularly unhappy because I >>> offered to >>> look at the facility ahead of time but my offer was refused. >>> I also had sent accessibility guidelines that stated hallways should >>> be kept >>> clear of things set against the walls. >>> >>> I know the people organizing the auction were well intentioned and >>> worked >>> very hard. I've no doubt it made lots of money for the church. I know >>> I'm >>> only one elderly and disabled person and probably was the only one of >>> our >>> wheelchair users foolish enough to try to participate. >>> However, I had been assured I would have no problem. >>> >>> Next week is the music soiree (talent show), another event I used to >>> enjoy. >>> However, I found out at the Coordinating Council this morning that >>> they >>> still plan to set up some tables (but fewer than last year) in the >>> sanctuary >>> because people find it so difficult to balance a glass of wine and >>> food on >>> their laps. So I doubt I will attempt to go to that event. >>> >>> It is wonderful that our church is attracting so many people who feel >>> welcome there, but I am feeling more than a little disenfranchised. I >>> miss >>> the church where I felt I could take part in events like this. >>> >>> Cindy >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Access mailing list >>> Access at uueugene.org >>> http://www.uueugene.org >>> http://www.uueugene.org/mailman/listinfo/access >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Access mailing list >>> Access at uueugene.org >>> http://www.uueugene.org >>> http://www.uueugene.org/mailman/listinfo/access >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Access mailing list >> Access at uueugene.org >> http://www.uueugene.org >> http://www.uueugene.org/mailman/listinfo/access > _______________________________________________ > Access mailing list > Access at uueugene.org > http://www.uueugene.org > http://www.uueugene.org/mailman/listinfo/access > From mariah at efn.org Mon Mar 10 15:09:40 2008 From: mariah at efn.org (d. maria) Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 12:09:40 -0800 Subject: [Access] Immobility at the Auction In-Reply-To: <20080310055001.maryotten@earthlink.net> References: <47D397FD.6030503@comcast.net> <003001c88236$237145d0$6401a8c0@TheMachine> <20080310055001.maryotten@earthlink.net> Message-ID: I agree with you about getting accessibility with physical accommodations being different from getting access to civil rights in general. Accessibility is a right! It is not so easily accommodated when physical changes and engineering must happen and be paid for to realize those rights... that does not make them any the less, rights. I agree we should cut people who are trying some slack. I also believe that, as a religious community, we serve all people in our community. It is a 1st principle issue. If a fund raiser will make less money if everyone is able to come, then do another fund raiser or find another way to raise the money. If we are not serving all of us, why serve any of us? It is an issue of inclusion and the right to autonomy. We need to re-think (a little higher?) our priorities and goals if we cannot have events that can accommodate everyone. dm On Mar 9, 2008, at 9:50 PM, mary otten wrote: > i wanted to make one other comment. i don't think its a matter of > people not thinking we are not important enough to accommodate. its > always a matter of competing interests, what a uu on another list > called competing covenants, in a slightly different context. here's a > hypothetical scenario. what would you do if you were the auction > leader and you learned that we had two choices of venue. one has > lots of room, but we will have to pay 4 thousand dollars to rent it. > the other is adequate for most people, but its limited such that if > you use a mobility device like a wheelchair, you are going to have > serious issues navigating. this place costs 1000 dollars to rent. do > you pay the extra 3k to ensure that their is enough space for > absolutely all? do you do that knowing that the amount you raise will > likely fall short of what was needed based on the budget for the > year? what if the spacious location cost just 1k more, but it was out > in coburg? so maybe attendance will be dow! > n from normal. this is why i say accessibility rights are different > from civil rights. > _______________________________________________ > Access mailing list > Access at uueugene.org > http://www.uueugene.org > http://www.uueugene.org/mailman/listinfo/access > From mariah at efn.org Mon Mar 10 15:30:10 2008 From: mariah at efn.org (d. maria) Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 12:30:10 -0800 Subject: [Access] Immobility at the Auction In-Reply-To: <47D56E37.9030906@comcast.net> References: <47D56E37.9030906@comcast.net> Message-ID: Cindy, you speak my mind... and thnx for the "sitting", but could you get that foot rest out of my right rib??? Whew, that's better. Those foot rests are a nuisance! dm On Mar 10, 2008, at 9:21 AM, Cindy Pitcairn wrote: > Mary Otten wrote: >> I wonder if Brian's events committee is going to be involved with >> events outside church or also >> those at church, such as the music thing in future years. That would >> be >> another avenue for education regarding possible alternative >> configurations. > In talking to Brian at the CC, I found out his committee sees its > primary function as the development of a policy manual based on the one > used by the Corvallis church. Thus my enthusiasm for doing one tailored > to our church would duplicate their efforts and most likely not be > used. > However, I imagine they are open to including accessibility items in > their manual. > > This raises another question which David mentioned in an e-mail to me > and which I quote without his permission: >> We usually think of accessibility as something for people with >> disabilities -- such as wheelchair users like yourself. But I felt as >> though the too small space for all the people, exhibits, and >> activities presented accessibility problems for many people: >> circulation problems, difficulties in obtaining food and finding some >> place where one could comfortably eat it, difficulties in seeing >> auction items on the window-sides of tables or against the windows, >> and in having sign-up sheets readily at hand, for example. > Back to Mary: >> But I do wonder how the heck you could configure a >> place such that all the people who can stand and talk or browse will >> do >> so and yet there will still be room for people who use wheelchairs or >> walkers to get through and see items. >> > This can be done, but it does call for more space to be feasible. At > the > PNWD AGM there were some buffets and they presented no accessibility > problems. When they anticipated not enough space for breakfast seating, > they asked everyone to find "breakfast buddies" and reach an agreement > that one would arrive early (7-8 am) and the other later (8-9 am). This > worked very well. At the most crowded event--the banquet at which > Rebecca Parker spoke--they announced in advance that it would be > crowded > and urged people to come early, but also had usher/greeters at the door > to help people find a seat. It was crowded but orderly and everyone was > treated with respect, There was a room with vendors where people were > browsing and just gathering and chatting and I had no difficulty > getting > around. It was a large round room, however. > > I think with limited space, perhaps the different activities involved > in > an event need to be timed separately. Thus, if the music soiree had > refreshments after the show instead of during it, there would still be > an impassable crowd for me in the social hall after the talent show. > However, there would be more space for seating for everyone in the > sanctuary without tables set up for eating and I would at least be able > to take in the show. We can't expect an event to serve several > different > functions in one time and place when large numbers of people are > involved. > > Them's my thoughts for the moment. > > Cindy > > > _______________________________________________ > Access mailing list > Access at uueugene.org > http://www.uueugene.org > http://www.uueugene.org/mailman/listinfo/access > From maryotten at earthlink.net Mon Mar 10 16:10:26 2008 From: maryotten at earthlink.net (Mary Otten) Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 14:10:26 -0700 Subject: [Access] Immobility at the Auction In-Reply-To: <30d1cc381bd8c40b9dbb5f98e11678d4@efn.org> Message-ID: Who is in charge of the music event next Saturday? I don't think we can ask Matt to do something without first talking with the folk who are putting this on. Is it the music committee? and somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but don't they already set up chairs for this in the social hall? I remember in the past hearing complaints from people in the back who could not see what was going on. Not my problem, obviously. the library would have a similar disadvantage, wouldn't it? you can't see from in there, can you? Regarding the need for tables, I would guess that its not just a matter of peoples' convenience regarding glasses and where to put them. Its also a matter of stuff getting spilled. But I seem to remember that they didn't always have food during the show. Maybe I'm misremembering. I guess there is an intermission, and they figure people will want food and something to drink, even if its not wine, which I don't remember from the time I went. anyway, bottom line: who is in charge of this event, if anybody knows? mary From maryotten at earthlink.net Mon Mar 10 16:27:24 2008 From: maryotten at earthlink.net (Mary Otten) Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 14:27:24 -0700 Subject: [Access] Immobility at the Auction In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 12:09:40 -0800, d. maria wrote: >I agree with you about getting accessibility with physical >accommodations being different from getting access to civil rights in >general. Accessibility is a right! It is not so easily accommodated >when physical changes and engineering must happen and be paid for to >realize those rights... that does not make them any the less, rights. I have problems with anything being called a "right" that then has a ton of strings attached to it, as do all the civil "rights" laws that pertain to the disabled. I think such use of language raises expectations to levels which cannot possibly be reached, not now and possibly not ever. That doesn't mean we shouldn't try. Maybe I'm just being picky on language usage here, and I'm not sure what you call it if not a right. but to me, rights are something that are not dependent on a whole host of stuff happening to make them a reality. >I agree we should cut people who are trying some slack. I also believe >that, as a religious community, we serve all people in our community. >It is a 1st principle issue. If a fund raiser will make less money if >everyone is able to come, then do another fund raiser or find another >way to raise the money. If we are not serving all of us, why serve any >of us? It is an issue of inclusion and the right to autonomy. We need >to re-think (a little higher?) our priorities and goals if we cannot >have events that can accommodate everyone. You know, we can't accomodate everybody at church right now. We have something close to 400 members and many who are not members attend. If all those people actually want to attend church on sunday, even if they divided evenly between the 2 services, we could not accommodate them. If even half of the members of the church had wanted to attend that auction on Saturday, we'd have been totally out of luck. that space was woefully too small to accommodate anything like the number who could theoreticaly have chosen to come, never mind the issue of people who need to use wheelchairs and walkers. Of course, we know not everybody will come. I'm all for doing the best we can. But I don't believe it is realistic, and it would be paralyzing if we said we can't do an event if it can't accommodate the entire congregation of members and friends. I wonder what other venues exist that are significantly larger in terms of usable space and are also not too expensive such that the goal of the event, fund-raising, is wiped out by having to pay the big bucks rental. I also can't help but comment that putting on a fund-raiser of this scope takes no small amount of work. so to do another big event would likely require more of the same, with a finite numnber of people who are willing or able to do that work. Maybe we will have a fund-raising committee that will come up with more ideas, and people will jump at the chance to pitch in and make them happen. One may hope. mary From Rev.D.Gilmartin at comcast.net Mon Mar 10 16:55:59 2008 From: Rev.D.Gilmartin at comcast.net (David Gilmartin) Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 14:55:59 -0700 Subject: [Access] Accessibility at the Soiree In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The Music Committee is in charge of the Music Soiree. I just spoke with Pat Hendricks, the chair of that committee, to let her know that accessibility for that event is a hot topic amongst our listserv participants, after our experience at the Auction. Cindy has also spoken with her. Their committee is aware of the access problems at last year's event, and has made some changes for this year: (1) There will be fewer tables for people to sit at with their food and wine. Some of these tables will be adjacent to wide aisles and wheelchair accessible, but not all. (2) Buffet tables will be against both walls in the Social Hall, with the center of the room open, to improve circulation. (3) Other seating will have wide aisles also, for circulation and wheelchair seating. Some tables have been retained, to ease the food juggling and for ambiance, I was told. I got the impression that the committee is aware that it is juggling a variety of needs and desires for this event -- popularity of the event and limited space being in conflict. FYI, I did NOT ask for further changes. Just communicated our strongly felt concerns. David G. From mariah at efn.org Mon Mar 10 18:27:00 2008 From: mariah at efn.org (d. maria) Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 15:27:00 -0800 Subject: [Access] Immobility at the Auction In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <101185cad0b76efa1a8a0c99586f9f5f@efn.org> Pat Hendricks is chair of the music committee and in charge of the event AND Matt will be setting up according to what Pat tells Kim to tell him. I am proposing we get permission to prompt Matt as he does so to modify for accessibility. Do-able? We won't know if we don't try. As I said, I am will to support the actual doing, but believe someone else do the diplomacy. How about you, Mary? dm On Mar 10, 2008, at 1:10 PM, Mary Otten wrote: > Who is in charge of the music event next Saturday? I don't think we can > ask Matt to do something without first talking with the folk who are > putting this on. Is it the music committee? and somebody correct me if > I'm wrong, but don't they already set up chairs for this in the social > hall? I remember in the past hearing complaints from people in the back > who could not see what was going on. Not my problem, obviously. the > library would have a similar disadvantage, wouldn't it? you can't see > from in there, can you? Regarding the need for tables, I would guess > that its not just a matter of peoples' convenience regarding glasses > and where to put them. Its also a matter of stuff getting spilled. But > I seem to remember that they didn't always have food during the show. > Maybe I'm misremembering. I guess there is an intermission, and they > figure people will want food and something to drink, even if its not > wine, which I don't remember from the time I went. anyway, bottom line: > who is in charge of this event, if anybody knows? > > mary > > _______________________________________________ > Access mailing list > Access at uueugene.org > http://www.uueugene.org > http://www.uueugene.org/mailman/listinfo/access > From mariah at efn.org Mon Mar 10 18:36:08 2008 From: mariah at efn.org (d. maria) Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 15:36:08 -0800 Subject: [Access] Immobility at the Auction In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <650787d6e17877aaba36d5a24a10bba0@efn.org> Mary, it is unreasonable to expect to meet a general fund budget well over $300,000 by having bake sales. That is what the auction is, as a fund-raiser. $12,000 can be much more easily raised through an effective pledge campaign. Our fund-raising efforts should not be so labor intensive and expensive to put on... they should be more fun to do and spent on the Extra fun things we didn't happen to raise enough money for, but would be nice to have... not to pay the electric bill. Thinking higher, to me, in this sense is to think about how we want to spend our social time together, and what kind of community do we want to be... I know we're not much on the bible at UUCE, but Jesus' actual teachings can be pretty incredible for their new age thought (not my fav. either, but)... anyway I am reminded here of one of his quotes: "Whatever you do for the least of "them" (people in general), you do unto me (god)." dm On Mar 10, 2008, at 1:27 PM, Mary Otten wrote: > On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 12:09:40 -0800, d. maria wrote: > >> I agree with you about getting accessibility with physical >> accommodations being different from getting access to civil rights in >> general. Accessibility is a right! It is not so easily accommodated >> when physical changes and engineering must happen and be paid for to >> realize those rights... that does not make them any the less, rights. > > I have problems with anything being called a "right" that then has a > ton of strings attached to it, as do all the civil "rights" laws that > pertain to the disabled. I think such use of language raises > expectations to levels which cannot possibly be reached, not now and > possibly not ever. That doesn't mean we shouldn't try. Maybe I'm just > being picky on language usage here, and I'm not sure what you call it > if not a right. but to me, rights are something that are not dependent > on a whole host of stuff happening to make them a reality. > > >> I agree we should cut people who are trying some slack. I also >> believe >> that, as a religious community, we serve all people in our community. >> It is a 1st principle issue. If a fund raiser will make less money if >> everyone is able to come, then do another fund raiser or find another >> way to raise the money. If we are not serving all of us, why serve >> any >> of us? It is an issue of inclusion and the right to autonomy. We >> need >> to re-think (a little higher?) our priorities and goals if we cannot >> have events that can accommodate everyone. > > You know, we can't accomodate everybody at church right now. We have > something close to 400 members and many who are not members attend. If > all those people actually want to attend church on sunday, even if they > divided evenly between the 2 services, we could not accommodate them. > If even half of the members of the church had wanted to attend that > auction on Saturday, we'd have been totally out of luck. that space was > woefully too small to accommodate anything like the number who could > theoreticaly have chosen to come, never mind the issue of people who > need to use wheelchairs and walkers. Of course, we know not everybody > will come. I'm all for doing the best we can. But I don't believe it is > realistic, and it would be paralyzing if we said we can't do an event > if it can't accommodate the entire congregation of members and friends. > > I wonder what other venues exist that are significantly larger in terms > of usable space and are also not too expensive such that the goal of > the event, fund-raising, is wiped out by having to pay the big bucks > rental. I also can't help but comment that putting on a fund-raiser of > this scope takes no small amount of work. so to do another big event > would likely require more of the same, with a finite numnber of people > who are willing or able to do that work. Maybe we will have a > fund-raising committee that will come up with more ideas, and people > will jump at the chance to pitch in and make them happen. One may hope. > > > mary > > _______________________________________________ > Access mailing list > Access at uueugene.org > http://www.uueugene.org > http://www.uueugene.org/mailman/listinfo/access > From maryotten at earthlink.net Mon Mar 10 18:31:43 2008 From: maryotten at earthlink.net (mary otten) Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 16:31:43 -0700 Subject: [Access] Immobility at the Auction In-Reply-To: <101185cad0b76efa1a8a0c99586f9f5f@efn.org> References: <101185cad0b76efa1a8a0c99586f9f5f@efn.org> Message-ID: <20080310233143.maryotten@earthlink.net> you will now have seen david's note where he said he spoke with pat and got assuance that there will be wheelchair accessible spaces. i can certainly call pat and repeat what david said and see about somebody being there when matt sets up, or perhaps leaving instructions as to specifics on the width and aisles etc. but no tables at all. is that something we want to persue this year? what do y'all think? mary ----- Original Message ----- From: "do. maria" To: Access Issues and Discussion Date: 2008/03/10 23:26:11 Subject: Re: [Access] Immobility at the Auction > > > Pat Hendricks is chair of the music committee and in charge of the > event AND Matt will be setting up according to what Pat tells Kim to > tell him. I am proposing we get permission to prompt Matt as he does > so to modify for accessibility. Do-able? We won't know if we don't > try. As I said, I am will to support the actual doing, but believe > someone else do the diplomacy. How about you, Mary? dm > > On Mar 10, 2008, at 1:10 PM, Mary Otten wrote: > > > Who is in charge of the music event next Saturday? I don't think we can > > ask Matt to do something without first talking with the folk who are > > putting this on. Is it the music committee? and somebody correct me if > > I'm wrong, but don't they already set up chairs for this in the social > > hall? I remember in the past hearing complaints from people in the back > > who could not see what was going on. Not my problem, obviously. the > > library would have a similar disadvantage, wouldn't it? you can't see > > from in there, can you? Regarding the need for tables, I would guess > > that its not just a matter of peoples' convenience regarding glasses > > and where to put them. Its also a matter of stuff getting spilled. But > > I seem to remember that they didn't always have food during the show. > > Maybe I'm misremembering. I guess there is an intermission, and they > > figure people will want food and something to drink, even if its not > > wine, which I don't remember from the time I went. anyway, bottom line: > > who is in charge of this event, if anybody knows? > > > > mary > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Access mailing list > > Access at uueugene.org > > http://www.uueugene.org > > http://www.uueugene.org/mailman/listinfo/access > > > > _______________________________________________ > Access mailing list > Access at uueugene.org > http://www.uueugene.org > http://www.uueugene.org/mailman/listinfo/access From algaelady at gmail.com Mon Mar 10 19:59:54 2008 From: algaelady at gmail.com (jeannemarie moore) Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 17:59:54 -0700 Subject: [Access] Immobility at the Auction In-Reply-To: <30d1cc381bd8c40b9dbb5f98e11678d4@efn.org> References: <47D397FD.6030503@comcast.net><003001c88236$237145d0$6401a8c0@TheMachine><20080310053231.maryotten@earthlink.net> <30d1cc381bd8c40b9dbb5f98e11678d4@efn.org> Message-ID: <006801c88313$387e07a0$6401a8c0@TheMachine> Oh I think that's a SPLENDID idea... Methinks alcohol is getting FAR too much attention here... I like your idea. but I won'tbe at the soiree, so I'm not a good person for this... j-m. -----Original Message----- From: access-bounces at uueugene.org [mailto:access-bounces at uueugene.org] On Behalf Of d. maria Sent: Monday, March 10, 2008 1:03 PM To: Access Issues and Discussion Subject: Re: [Access] Immobility at the Auction We could get permission to work with Matt as he sets up, and require that there be NO tables in the sanctuary. I think that the right to be able to get from point A to point B and attend, trumps the right to not have to juggle your wine glass. If that wine glass is a priority, they can "sit" in the social hall, lobby or library. That is what I would like to (and believe is possible) do before next Saturday. What do others (you) think? I am willing to let someone more diplomatic do the talking to people to get permission... thnx, dm On Mar 9, 2008, at 9:32 PM, mary otten wrote: > i think the problems point up the necessity of having the check list. > but also, i think this whole situation with insufficient space points > out the absurdity of calling things like the ada civil rights laws. > it is a fact, whether we who have disabilities like to admit it or > not, that accommodating our needs is sometimes quite different from > accommodating the needs or rights of, say people of color or people > who are gay. if you pass a law that says people of color have the > right to vote, of course, you still have to look out and make sure > obstacles aren't placed in their way. if you pass a law that gives gay > couples the right to the same things straight people have, you still > have to watch and make sure it happens, of course. but all those > things are matters of enforcement that don't require any change to > existing physical structures. they don't require changes to the > physical environment. the problem i have with the auction is that > cindy's offer to go check things out was ! > turned down. while i do not like it, i am not sure that it would be > possible to find a place that we can afford that is laid out such > that there is sufficient space to accommodate all. what we have the > right to expect, in my view, is the best faith effort to find such a > place and an honest assessment, with our input, of the place that is > eventually found. > as for the music thing, i'm guessing its way too late to do much about > that this yearthe fact is it was way too crowded last year. people had > to stand. our building is just too small to accommodate all those who > wish to come. > mariah, what would you suggest we do about the music show next > weekend? seems like its too close to do anything about it. i'd love it > if it could be in a larger place. but a week before the event, i don't > see what can be done. > mary > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "do. maria" > To: Access Issues and Discussion , > algaelady at gmail.com > Date: 2008/03/10 03:12:40 > Subject: Re: [Access] Immobility at the Auction > >> >> >> OK, this is the part where you-all sit on me and hold me down. I am >> furious!!! I didn't go to the auction for other "accessibility?inin* >> reasons, but with all the discussions about the crowding from last >> year and the offers of assistance, for this to happen is inexcusable. >> Well intentioned or not, one does not turn down offers of help >> however much you don't think you need them. Sue is a retired >> Physical Therapist, so I can understand why she might think she >> didn't need help... because of this, I believed her, but that is >> still no excuse. Raising money is not the ONLY reason for the >> Auction, but it has become the most important one and I, for one, am >> tired of being considered not-important-enough to accommodate. I >> think we have to do something about the Soiree, and fast. Someone >> can be present when it is set-up with a tape measure. I will be >> happy to be a support person for this. >> Matt just does what he's told... he will do better if we give him the >> numbers. What do you-all think? dm >> >> inin* Our church auctions, for me, are like window shopping on Park >> Ave., NY with no money and no hope of any, ever. Even the events you >> can buy for $5.00 don't include me. I have bought 3 over the years >> and they have always been held when I couldn't go. The last one I >> only bid on because it was a date I was available... but, they >> changed the date. >> Now I don't mind donating $5.00 to the auction, but the process of >> going to a party and bidding on something fun to do with other >> UUCE'ERS, and look forward to, for nothing... isn't my idea of fun. >> On Mar 9, 2008, at 2:37 PM, jeannemarie moore wrote: >> >>> Hi Cindy, >>> >>> The auction did apparently raise money... I was told "NARROW >>> passageway several times to get through spaces... it was astonishing >>> to me... >>> the >>> microphone cords were not taped down and it was challenging for >>> folks to navigate, not just you. >>> My offer was refused also. I was told it would be accessible and >>> stuff would be "all under control." >>> I do not know what to say to you except you are not the only person >>> who noticed and whose offer was refused. >>> >>> On a different note, much more positive: >>> >>> today when I came into church by myself, two or three different >>> people asked if I needed assistance and when I explained what would >>> be helpful, those things happened. >>> I felt hopeful about that. >>> It was incredibly access tight getting around, it appeared though, >>> in the sanctuary... I was asked to "move forward" so someone could >>> get by and gosh, the table was really into my ribs already... >>> I think with such a thing the lunch, as yummy as it was, might have >>> to be done differently to include all the interested p... >>> We have our diplomatic work cut out for us, I guess... >>> >>> j-more. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ----comOriginal Message----- >>> From: access-bounces at uueugene.org >>> [mailto:access-bounces at uueugene.org] >>> On >>> Behalf Of Cindy Pitcairn >>> Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2008 11:56 PM >>> To: Accessibility group >>> Subject: [Access] Immobility at the Auction >>> >>> I feel discouraged, to say the least, at my experience trying to >>> attend the UUCE auction tonight. The traffic pattern could hardly >>> have been worse. With buffet tables lining the hallways and people >>> gathered in front of them, it was almost impossible to move my >>> wheelchair anywhere. >>> >>> People did help me to get through to the main room. (Forget about >>> food--not much of a chance for that, though someone did offer to get >>> me a brownie or >>> something!) Once in the room it was impossible to get to the sides >>> to view the items up for silent auction. There was not enough room >>> to turn my wheelchair around to get out of the room without crashing >>> into a walker, which had been set in the aisleway. In my attempt to >>> turn, I knocked over the walker and broke the wineglass sitting on >>> it. At that point I decided to leave. >>> >>> I certainly didn't get the impression that the church offered much >>> more space than our own, and the way it was set up made >>> maneuverability almost impossible, at least for me. I'm particularly >>> unhappy because I offered to look at the facility ahead of time but >>> my offer was refused. >>> I also had sent accessibility guidelines that stated hallways should >>> be kept clear of things set against the walls. >>> >>> I know the people organizing the auction were well intentioned and >>> worked very hard. I've no doubt it made lots of money for the >>> church. I know I'm only one elderly and disabled person and probably >>> was the only one of our wheelchair users foolish enough to try to >>> participate. >>> However, I had been assured I would have no problem. >>> >>> Next week is the music soiree (talent show), another event I used to >>> enjoy. >>> However, I found out at the Coordinating Council this morning that >>> they still plan to set up some tables (but fewer than last year) in >>> the sanctuary because people find it so difficult to balance a glass >>> of wine and food on their laps. So I doubt I will attempt to go to >>> that event. >>> >>> It is wonderful that our church is attracting so many people who >>> feel welcome there, but I am feeling more than a little >>> disenfranchised. I miss the church where I felt I could take part in >>> events like this. >>> >>> Cindy >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Access mailing list >>> Access at uueugene.org >>> http://www.uueugene.org >>> http://www.uueugene.org/mailman/listinfo/access >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Access mailing list >>> Access at uueugene.org >>> http://www.uueugene.org >>> http://www.uueugene.org/mailman/listinfo/access >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Access mailing list >> Access at uueugene.org >> http://www.uueugene.org >> http://www.uueugene.org/mailman/listinfo/access > _______________________________________________ > Access mailing list > Access at uueugene.org > http://www.uueugene.org > http://www.uueugene.org/mailman/listinfo/access > _______________________________________________ Access mailing list Access at uueugene.org http://www.uueugene.org http://www.uueugene.org/mailman/listinfo/access From algaelady at gmail.com Mon Mar 10 20:28:52 2008 From: algaelady at gmail.com (jeannemarie moore) Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 18:28:52 -0700 Subject: [Access] Immobility at the Auction In-Reply-To: <20080310233143.maryotten@earthlink.net> References: <101185cad0b76efa1a8a0c99586f9f5f@efn.org> <20080310233143.maryotten@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <008801c88317$4563bd30$6401a8c0@TheMachine> YES! j-m. -----Original Message----- From: access-bounces at uueugene.org [mailto:access-bounces at uueugene.org] On Behalf Of mary otten Sent: Monday, March 10, 2008 4:32 PM To: access at uueugene.org Subject: Re: [Access] Immobility at the Auction you will now have seen david's note where he said he spoke with pat and got assuance that there will be wheelchair accessible spaces. i can certainly call pat and repeat what david said and see about somebody being there when matt sets up, or perhaps leaving instructions as to specifics on the width and aisles etc. but no tables at all. is that something we want to persue this year? what do y'all think? mary ----- Original Message ----- From: "do. maria" To: Access Issues and Discussion Date: 2008/03/10 23:26:11 Subject: Re: [Access] Immobility at the Auction > > > Pat Hendricks is chair of the music committee and in charge of the > event AND Matt will be setting up according to what Pat tells Kim to > tell him. I am proposing we get permission to prompt Matt as he does > so to modify for accessibility. Do-able? We won't know if we don't > try. As I said, I am will to support the actual doing, but believe > someone else do the diplomacy. How about you, Mary? dm > > On Mar 10, 2008, at 1:10 PM, Mary Otten wrote: > > > Who is in charge of the music event next Saturday? I don't think we > > can ask Matt to do something without first talking with the folk who > > are putting this on. Is it the music committee? and somebody correct > > me if I'm wrong, but don't they already set up chairs for this in > > the social hall? I remember in the past hearing complaints from > > people in the back who could not see what was going on. Not my > > problem, obviously. the library would have a similar disadvantage, > > wouldn't it? you can't see from in there, can you? Regarding the > > need for tables, I would guess that its not just a matter of > > peoples' convenience regarding glasses and where to put them. Its > > also a matter of stuff getting spilled. But I seem to remember that they didn't always have food during the show. > > Maybe I'm misremembering. I guess there is an intermission, and they > > figure people will want food and something to drink, even if its not > > wine, which I don't remember from the time I went. anyway, bottom line: > > who is in charge of this event, if anybody knows? > > > > mary > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Access mailing list > > Access at uueugene.org > > http://www.uueugene.org > > http://www.uueugene.org/mailman/listinfo/access > > > > _______________________________________________ > Access mailing list > Access at uueugene.org > http://www.uueugene.org > http://www.uueugene.org/mailman/listinfo/access _______________________________________________ Access mailing list Access at uueugene.org http://www.uueugene.org http://www.uueugene.org/mailman/listinfo/access From KaeserR at earthlink.net Tue Mar 11 10:32:16 2008 From: KaeserR at earthlink.net (Robert Kaeser) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 08:32:16 -0700 Subject: [Access] Accessibility at the Soiree In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: My two cents: I think it would be a good idea to have those with handicaps to get first access to the food line. It would be helpful if Tom or someone would make an announcement to that effect and to also make everyone aware and more sensitive to the needs to others. There is a tendency to start up a conversation with a friend in a food line and stop to talk with them when one has his/her plate full or coffee cup filled. People should be encouraged to move on and be aware of other people's needs. bob K At 02:55 PM 3/10/2008 -0700, you wrote: >The Music Committee is in charge of the Music Soiree. I just spoke >with Pat Hendricks, the chair of that committee, to let her know that >accessibility for that event is a hot topic amongst our listserv >participants, after our experience at the Auction. Cindy has also >spoken with her. "Science, for its progress, its understanding and so on, depends so much on truth and clarity. And the question is: Are we living in a society where truth and clarity are an important element of our culture?" --- I. I. Rabi From maryotten at earthlink.net Tue Mar 11 15:03:10 2008 From: maryotten at earthlink.net (Mary Otten) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 13:03:10 -0700 Subject: [Access] Accessibility at the Soiree In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I just spoke with Pat of the music committee, who says its fine if somebody, I mentioned Mariah specifically, because she had said she was willing to do it, would come when they are setting up for the performance on Saturday. Pat suggests that it would be good to come between 3:30 and 3:45, after they've gotten a start on the set up, just to check and make sure its ok. She really does sound aware of the problem and says they're going to measure and have the aisles of necessary width and far fewer tables than they had last year. It will just be finger foods served at intermission, so there won't be a line as such, just plates at each end of the table, where you can come and pick up your plate then get what you want without a line as such. Not sure how that works in practice, but that is what she said. Mary On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 14:55:59 -0700, David Gilmartin wrote: >The Music Committee is in charge of the Music Soiree. I just spoke >with Pat Hendricks, the chair of that committee, to let her know that >accessibility for that event is a hot topic amongst our listserv >participants, after our experience at the Auction. Cindy has also >spoken with her. > >Their committee is aware of the access problems at last year's event, >and has made some changes for this year: (1) There will be fewer >tables for people to sit at with their food and wine. Some of these >tables will be adjacent to wide aisles and wheelchair accessible, but >not all. (2) Buffet tables will be against both walls in the Social >Hall, with the center of the room open, to improve circulation. (3) >Other seating will have wide aisles also, for circulation and >wheelchair seating. > >Some tables have been retained, to ease the food juggling and for >ambiance, I was told. I got the impression that the committee is aware >that it is juggling a variety of needs and desires for this event -- >popularity of the event and limited space being in conflict. > >FYI, I did NOT ask for further changes. Just communicated our strongly >felt concerns. > >David G. >_______________________________________________ >Access mailing list >Access at uueugene.org >http://www.uueugene.org >http://www.uueugene.org/mailman/listinfo/access > >__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 2935 (20080310) __________ > >The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > >http://www.eset.com > > From lucindap at comcast.net Tue Mar 11 17:24:33 2008 From: lucindap at comcast.net (Cindy Pitcairn) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 15:24:33 -0700 Subject: [Access] Accessibility at the Soiree In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <47D706A1.9070405@comcast.net> I would offer to go, but my son, his wife, and 21-month-old son are visiting me this week and I'm unsure whether I will be in shape to do that Saturday afternoon or even go to the Soiree at this point. Cindy Mary Otten wrote: > I just spoke with Pat of the music committee, who says its fine if > somebody, I mentioned Mariah specifically, because she had said she was > willing to do it, would come when they are setting up for the > performance on Saturday. Pat suggests that it would be good to come > between 3:30 and 3:45, after they've gotten a start on the set up, just > to check and make sure its ok. She really does sound aware of the > problem and says they're going to measure and have the aisles of > necessary width and far fewer tables than they had last year. It will > just be finger foods served at intermission, so there won't be a line > as such, just plates at each end of the table, where you can come and > pick up your plate then get what you want without a line as such. Not > sure how that works in practice, but that is what she said. > > Mary > > From lucindap at comcast.net Wed Mar 12 00:59:28 2008 From: lucindap at comcast.net (Cindy Pitcairn) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 22:59:28 -0700 Subject: [Access] Accessibility at the Soiree In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <47D77140.60009@comcast.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.uueugene.org/pipermail/access/attachments/20080311/ca58de55/attachment.html From mariah at efn.org Wed Mar 12 10:04:41 2008 From: mariah at efn.org (d. maria) Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 07:04:41 -0800 Subject: [Access] Accessibility at the Soiree In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: A gentle suggestion, Bob: instead of "handicap", i think "mobility challenges" or some/such would work better for me. The word "handicapped" has such negative connotations. And what a Wonderful idea! For us to go through the line first. At the native american longhouse, Elders are always served first, and the Young men serve those with mobility issues. . . However, to do that here would be like it was at the Grandmother's gathering. We're mostly elders here. But, we could make room for those with walkers, canes (all kinds), and wheelchairs (of all ages) to go first AND pay attention to where we are stopping to chat. thnx, dm On Mar 11, 2008, at 7:32 AM, Robert Kaeser wrote: > My two cents: > I think it would be a good idea to have those with handicaps to get > first access to the food line. It would be helpful if Tom or someone > would make an announcement to that effect and to also make everyone > aware and more sensitive to the needs to others. There is a tendency > to start up a conversation with a friend in a food line and stop to > talk with them when one has his/her plate full or coffee cup > filled. People should be encouraged to move on and be aware of other > people's needs. > bob K > > At 02:55 PM 3/10/2008 -0700, you wrote: >> The Music Committee is in charge of the Music Soiree. I just spoke >> with Pat Hendricks, the chair of that committee, to let her know that >> accessibility for that event is a hot topic amongst our listserv >> participants, after our experience at the Auction. Cindy has also >> spoken with her. > > "Science, for its progress, its understanding and so on, depends so > much on truth and clarity. And the question is: Are we living in a > society where truth and clarity are an important element of our > culture?" --- I. I. Rabi > > _______________________________________________ > Access mailing list > Access at uueugene.org > http://www.uueugene.org > http://www.uueugene.org/mailman/listinfo/access > From algaelady at gmail.com Mon Mar 17 21:42:56 2008 From: algaelady at gmail.com (jeannemarie moore) Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 19:42:56 -0700 Subject: [Access] two dates... Message-ID: <007601c888a1$c5c54090$6401a8c0@TheMachine> I thought these might be of interest, though they are very unrelated... *** May 2, 2008 "Beyond the Ramp Engaging People with Disabilities in Faith Communities." Sponsored by the Interfaith Disabilities Network of Oregon, the event will be held at St. Anthony Village, 3560 SE 79th Ave., Portland, 97206. 8:30AM- 4:00PM, Fee is $25, including lunch, if paid by April 15, $35 after. For families and individuals with disabilities, educators, service providers, and clergy and lay leaders. For a brochure, contact idno at msn.com ? or phone Corinne at 503 226-7079 ext. 55. *** August 11 - 13, 2008 Oregon Assistive Technology Summer Institute at the Seaside Convention Center in Seaside Oregon.? Contact Shar Burgoyne form more information at 541-440-4793 or email shar.burgoyne at couglasesd.k12.or.us? Jeanne-Marie From lucindap at comcast.net Wed Mar 19 12:50:42 2008 From: lucindap at comcast.net (Cindy Pitcairn) Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 10:50:42 -0700 Subject: [Access] Minutes of the Accessibility Committee, March 4, 2008 Message-ID: <47E15272.4020109@comcast.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.uueugene.org/pipermail/access/attachments/20080319/d5c54d51/attachment.html From lucindap at comcast.net Fri Mar 21 12:09:32 2008 From: lucindap at comcast.net (Cindy Pitcairn) Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 10:09:32 -0700 Subject: [Access] [Fwd: accessibility e-mails 1 of 5] Message-ID: <47E3EBCC.9090401@comcast.net> Linda Anson has asked me to forward five e-mails that were originally exchanged when we had an all-church stewardship Sunday at the Shedd some years ago. They all concern issues of accessibility at that event, but can be applied in general, as well. Thanks for forwarding them, Linda. Cindy Pitcairn -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "Linda Anson" Subject: accessibility e-mails 1 of 5 Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 07:45:23 -0700 Size: 14127 Url: http://www.uueugene.org/pipermail/access/attachments/20080321/3fe47e6d/attachment.eml From lucindap at comcast.net Fri Mar 21 12:10:31 2008 From: lucindap at comcast.net (Cindy Pitcairn) Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 10:10:31 -0700 Subject: [Access] [Fwd: e-mail 2] Message-ID: <47E3EC07.1050702@comcast.net> -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "Linda Anson" Subject: e-mail 2 Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 07:45:46 -0700 Size: 21015 Url: http://www.uueugene.org/pipermail/access/attachments/20080321/05ab901e/attachment-0001.eml From lucindap at comcast.net Fri Mar 21 12:11:03 2008 From: lucindap at comcast.net (Cindy Pitcairn) Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 10:11:03 -0700 Subject: [Access] [Fwd: e-mail 3] Message-ID: <47E3EC27.6050505@comcast.net> -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "Linda Anson" Subject: e-mail 3 Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 07:45:58 -0700 Size: 15822 Url: http://www.uueugene.org/pipermail/access/attachments/20080321/a0f8d4e1/attachment.eml From lucindap at comcast.net Fri Mar 21 12:11:49 2008 From: lucindap at comcast.net (Cindy Pitcairn) Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 10:11:49 -0700 Subject: [Access] [Fwd: e-mail 4] Message-ID: <47E3EC55.6090609@comcast.net> -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "Linda Anson" Subject: e-mail 4 Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 07:46:11 -0700 Size: 29647 Url: http://www.uueugene.org/pipermail/access/attachments/20080321/ae280f38/attachment-0001.eml From lucindap at comcast.net Fri Mar 21 12:12:40 2008 From: lucindap at comcast.net (Cindy Pitcairn) Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 10:12:40 -0700 Subject: [Access] [Fwd: e-mail 5 - final] Message-ID: <47E3EC88.9070408@comcast.net> -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "Linda Anson" Subject: e-mail 5 - final Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 07:46:26 -0700 Size: 6763 Url: http://www.uueugene.org/pipermail/access/attachments/20080321/aa3642f2/attachment.eml From ruthken at pacinfo.com Fri Mar 21 12:32:00 2008 From: ruthken at pacinfo.com (uuRuth Ross) Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 10:32:00 -0700 Subject: [Access] [Fwd: e-mail 3] In-Reply-To: <47E3EC27.6050505@comcast.net> References: <47E3EC27.6050505@comcast.net> Message-ID: Do you know what 'this morning's event' refers to? moi On Mar 21, 2008 , at 10:11, Cindy Pitcairn wrote: > > > From: "Linda Anson" > Date: March 21, 2008 07:45:58 PDT > To: "Cindy Pitcairn" > Subject: e-mail 3 > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: ahohen at comcast.net > To: Linda Anson > Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2004 9:33 PM > Subject: Re: Your advice and comments are invited > > Hi Linda; > > Thanks for your e mail! I thought this morning's event was pretty > amazing and must have taken an enormous amount of work to put > together. So thank you for all your efforts. > > Re: the Shedd. Like Cindy, we have been there before to a number > of performances. The venue is not ideal for people in wheelchairs. > We are usually relegated to the side aisle, which because it's > completely under the balcony has really bad acoustics. We often > feel like we're missing alot. There's never any chance to sit in > the center section. I'm not sure that they are even aware that > there is a problem, so it would be great if you would bring it up > with them. > > Chris said that he wrote you a note this evening as well. > > In any case, thanks for caring as much as you do! > > Anne > > > > > > From: "Linda Anson" > Date: May 23, 2004 16:03:40 PDT > To: "Alicia Hays and Adelka Shawn" , "Cindy > Pitcairn" , "Chris Hohenemser" > , "Ann Hohenemser" , > "Martin Lewis (for Anne Marie Hayes)" , > "Evelyn McConnaughey" > Cc: "Carolyn Colbert" , "John Wagner" > , "Olga Turner" , "Candee > Cole" > Subject: Your advice and comments are invited > > > Thanks to feedback this morning from Alicia Hays and Adelka Shawn, > I realize some changes we can make at future events so that > wheelchair users are afforded the same sense of inclusion that non- > wheelchair users are afforded. As one of the planners of this > morning?s Celebration Sunday service, I hoped everyone would have > feelings of belonging and celebration, and apologize that the entry > and seating options given wheelchair users at The Shedd > contributed, instead, to feelings of exclusion and anger. > > I asked Alicia and Adelka how we could better address access and > seating in the future, and intend to pass on their suggestions to > staff at The Shedd. (We accepted The Shedd's access and seating > p